Economy Dentures

[rlhhds]

Some discussion in our lab on economy dentures. We made an emergency denture because the dr. admittedly screwed up and we bailed him out. We printed a monolithic denture and put pink composite on the gingival(not our normal economy denture technique) and he and the patient were thrilled that we could get them something acceptable to them so fast. My removable lead thought there could be a sizable market for a "super economy denture" like this. Is anyone doing something like this for their economy dentures? What are you all doing for your economy dentures? All our premium dentures are Ivotion milled and economy are lucitone print. Thanks

 

[evanosu]

I think my question would be cost and price.
How much does it cost you to do it this way and how much do you have to charge for it and would a dentist want to pay for whatever that price is?

Are you using Carbon printer for Lucitone Print? I mean wouldn't you have to charge over $300 for that "economy" denture?

 

[rlhhds]

I think my question would be cost and price.
How much does it cost you to do it this way and how much do you have to charge for it and would a dentist want to pay for whatever that price is?

Are you using Carbon printer for Lucitone Print? I mean wouldn't you have to charge over $300 for that "economy" denture?

We print them on an Asiga.

 

[evanosu]

So I'm looking into printers, how do you like the Asiga? Can you tell me the rough cost to print 1 arch? I'm talking with Carbon, Einstein, Prodways, Stratasys etc. lol.

 

[tuyere]

Asigas are 'fine' even 'good', but if you're just getting into printing and are a small lab, I wouldn't go with any of the dental companies at all, you'll vastly overpay for what you get. You can pay less than a grand for a Phrozen with a big bed and it'll do 95% of what a Carbon can, you can even print denture teeth and nanoceramics and nightguards and all the fancy stuff, you'll just have to learn a bit of the process and do your own support. With dental printers four-fifths of the ticket price is functionally paying for support you can call up who will know what a die or a margin is, the machines are 'good' but the difference with a hobby printer is negligible at this point for most applications. We run two Carbons and four Asigas but that's because we're a big lab and print hundreds of parts a day and the cost is justifiable.

 

[evanosu]

Asigas are 'fine' even 'good', but if you're just getting into printing and are a small lab, I wouldn't go with any of the dental companies at all, you'll vastly overpay for what you get. You can pay less than a grand for a Phrozen with a big bed and it'll do 95% of what a Carbon can, you can even print denture teeth and nanoceramics and nightguards and all the fancy stuff, you'll just have to learn a bit of the process and do your own support. With dental printers four-fifths of the ticket price is functionally paying for support you can call up who will know what a die or a margin is, the machines are 'good' but the difference with a hobby printer is negligible at this point for most applications. We run two Carbons and four Asigas but that's because we're a big lab and print hundreds of parts a day and the cost is justifiable.

Thanks. So we would be looking to print 100 full dentures/week to start.

 

[rlhhds]

So I'm looking into printers, how do you like the Asiga? Can you tell me the rough cost to print 1 arch? I'm talking with Carbon, Einstein, Prodways, Stratasys etc. lol.

We like what the Asiga does for us. Have not broke down cost per arch. Look at how much resin used on the arch and cost of material. We are retiring most of our Envisiontec ONE printers and our Einsteins. I think we are keeping one running just for small batch stuff. Running Heygears Hive for models and Asiga for our splints and Luci Print. Might have an Einstein sitting here we would be willing to part with if interested.

 

[tuyere]

Thanks. So we would be looking to print 100 full dentures/week to start.

So not a small lab, then. If you're not also printing a lot of models then a full-size Asiga should be able to keep up. They've just released updated models that seem pretty good, the 4K line has some significant defects that it seems like they're trying to address. They haven't been out for long enough for anybody to have a proper handle on them yet, but they seem solid, I'd go for a new one over a 4K even if they've cut prices on the 4Ks now.
Carbons are nice but ~printing as a service~ sucks as a model, you kind of put your lab's production in the hands of someone else and are at the mercy of their support. Which is... fine, if you're a big customer. I dunno, I'm heavily biased towards actually owning your means of production, so to speak.

 

[evanosu]

So not a small lab, then. If you're not also printing a lot of models then a full-size Asiga should be able to keep up. They've just released updated models that seem pretty good, the 4K line has some significant defects that it seems like they're trying to address. They haven't been out for long enough for anybody to have a proper handle on them yet, but they seem solid, I'd go for a new one over a 4K even if they've cut prices on the 4Ks now.
Carbons are nice but ~printing as a service~ sucks as a model, you kind of put your lab's production in the hands of someone else and are at the mercy of their support. Which is... fine, if you're a big customer. I dunno, I'm heavily biased towards actually owning your means of production, so to speak.

Agreed. So the Asiga, good for printing the denture base and teeth separate?

 

[evanosu]

Who's got the best printed teeth out there? Some of them are just too 'bland' even for an economy line.

 

[TheLabGuy]

Our economy denture is a lucitone 199 printed denture, great for exactly what you described in your original post. I like to call it the 5-year denture, because if you get 5 years out of it, that's great. Our monolithic digital denture (ivotion) is our 15+ year denture, and we are the same with our traditional denture cases 15+ (GC hi-implact naturecyrl heat cured). Why do we attach years to our stuff because, like dentists, you get a crown or a denture, it really should last you a minimum period of time and those are our minimum's. Sure, some step on them, dog eats them, they decide to gargle black paint with them or try to find out how crack smoking holds up to them but that isn't the norm/average patient. Hope that helps.

 

[evanosu]

Our economy denture is a lucitone 199 printed denture, great for exactly what you described in your original post. I like to call it the 5-year denture, because if you get 5 years out of it, that's great. Our monolithic digital denture (ivotion) is our 15+ year denture, and we are the same with our traditional denture cases 15+ (GC hi-implact naturecyrl heat cured). Why do we attach years to our stuff because, like dentists, you get a crown or a denture, it really should last you a minimum period of time and those are our minimum's. Sure, some step on them, dog eats them, they decide to gargle black paint with them or try to find out how crack smoking holds up to them but that isn't the norm/average patient. Hope that helps.

Rob - you using Carbon then to do the Lucitone 199, can I ask what you charge for these "economic" dentures. I think of economy denture as under $250. I have a product line specific for just one client and they don't have to be anything crazy but they want the printed teeth to look a bit nicer than what I've seen from Einstein etc.

 

[TheLabGuy]

Rob - you using Carbon then to do the Lucitone 199, can I ask what you charge for these "economic" dentures. I think of economy denture as under $250. I have a product line specific for just one client and they don't have to be anything crazy but they want the printed teeth to look a bit nicer than what I've seen from Einstein etc.

Absolutely, I don't have many secrets Yes, on a Carbon and Lucitone 199 is $229, Ivotion $400, Traditional is $475. Per arch.
Carbon does a nice job, but Dentsply's library/premium resin is what really makes the difference in my opinion.

 

[rlhhds]

Our economy denture is a lucitone 199 printed denture, great for exactly what you described in your original post. I like to call it the 5-year denture, because if you get 5 years out of it, that's great. Our monolithic digital denture (ivotion) is our 15+ year denture, and we are the same with our traditional denture cases 15+ (GC hi-implact naturecyrl heat cured). Why do we attach years to our stuff because, like dentists, you get a crown or a denture, it really should last you a minimum period of time and those are our minimum's. Sure, some step on them, dog eats them, they decide to gargle black paint with them or try to find out how crack smoking holds up to them but that isn't the norm/average patient. Hope that helps.

How long do you warranty your dentures for?

 

[TheLabGuy]

How long do you warranty your dentures for?

Depends what you consider a warranty is? Burnt teeth from crack smoking on a denture you made last week, is that a warranty? It isn't in my book either, neither is most dumb stuff patients do. So if I can help them out I will (half off, etc...) but most times it's full price. I see warranties as only a opportunity to for a discussion of what happened and why? Is it occlusion, material failure, can or should we make it stronger, is it time for a more permanent denture or premium teeth. There's a reason they don't have teeth, what is it and does it affect our appliances. removable is totally different that fixed when it comes to warranties in my book. Not much constitutes a remake in the removable department and believe it or not, things tend to be holding up so far...probably jinxed myself now.

 

[tuyere]

FWIW we used to use Lucitone for our denture teeth, but we've suspended that because the shades seem to be inconsistent and we were getting complaints. For the time being we're milling them instead, for the economy dentures as well as premium. Some people are getting a great deal on economy dentures until we find a product that has better shades, lol.

 

[FASTFNGR]

Rob - you using Carbon then to do the Lucitone 199, can I ask what you charge for these "economic" dentures. I think of economy denture as under $250. I have a product line specific for just one client and they don't have to be anything crazy but they want the printed teeth to look a bit nicer than what I've seen from Einstein etc.

You have to remember something, when you want to sell an economy printed denture or disposable denture or an immediate denture what is your plan to reline them? Or fix them?Average time for a reline is 2 to 3 years. Lost of weight or just because it is a tissue born appliance it will happen. Are you printing them again? Who is paying for it? You? The Dr or the patient? Then it is not that cheap in either case. Put all your cards on the table and let them decide.
Just my opinion about printed denture. At the end cheap is expensive to you , the Dr and the patient.. Add to that no quality to the patient.

 

[Toothman19]

Thanks. So we would be looking to print 100 full dentures/week to start.

Get a Carbon then. That sticker price will shock you though

 

[Flipperlady]

Our economy denture is a lucitone 199 printed denture, great for exactly what you described in your original post. I like to call it the 5-year denture, because if you get 5 years out of it, that's great. Our monolithic digital denture (ivotion) is our 15+ year denture, and we are the same with our traditional denture cases 15+ (GC hi-implact naturecyrl heat cured). Why do we attach years to our stuff because, like dentists, you get a crown or a denture, it really should last you a minimum period of time and those are our minimum's. Sure, some step on them, dog eats them, they decide to gargle black paint with them or try to find out how crack smoking holds up to them but that isn't the norm/average patient. Hope that helps.

You can call the denture anything you want but I wouldn't put that in writing lol, or say it where the dentist or patient can hear you. Say if this was an immediate denture that "failed" after 6 weeks, you get to make the permanent for free. I don't even know how the manufacturers of the material get by with the things they say about their products.

 

[rkm rdt]