e.max stain & glaze posterior

[LGTCDT]

Natural Glaze or the Glaze paste? If paste how many firings?

 

[DeVreugd]

Natural Glaze or the Glaze paste? If paste how many firings?

LGT,
I used fleur glaze paste with essence mixed in on 1st fire. Thinned out glaze paste for final glaze. Polished with Yeti porcelain polish (suggested by Oliver Brix) & soft robinson bristle brush. I like the final finish that it gives.

Russ

 

[DeVreugd]

Nice work Russ. I think I can answer why you opted to use the MO1 vs an LTA1...because the Doctor prescribed PFMs, there likely wasnt a stump shade provided, so youre a little more safe with the extra masking of the MO. As long as its not in the smile line, stain will work, and the MO actually maintains its value better than an LT in the more shadowed area.

The only critique I could suggest is to drop way back on the f/stop. The current configuration (f/32 ??) is giving such a shallow field of focus, it doesnt encompass the whole tooth.

Please update with the Doctors comments. Thanks

Thanks user ! You are right on all counts....... I know about the f/stop thing. Sometimes I have many things going at one time I forget to check it out. Also, the distortion can be a little artsy !!!

Russ

 

[DeVreugd]

That makes sense, I never heard of folks using it as a full contour is why I asked.....leave it to Russ to think out of the box for us Your waxing class is on my to do list for sure....that's crazy waxing skills.

Thanks Rob,

Would love to have you in one of my Courses! Enjoy your time in FL ! 85 degrees here today!! Grand Rapids.....not so

Russ

 

[TheLabGuy]

Thanks Rob,

Would love to have you in one of my Courses! Enjoy your time in FL ! 85 degrees here today!! Grand Rapids.....not so

Russ

14.6 inches headed my way tonight

 

[dmonwaxa]

Thanks user ! You are right on all counts....... I know about the f/stop thing. Sometimes I have many things going at one time I forget to check it out. Also, the distortion can be a little artsy !!!

Russ

Me likey the Artsy!

 

[subrisi]

If you use MO you are fie with everyting what is underneath, bu tif you use LT or HT, I recomment using stumps. I never do emax without sumps for correct colors. I aslo use 95% of all cases LT, V or HT. Very rarely do I use MO or HO.

 

[DeVreugd]

If you use MO you are fie with everyting what is underneath, bu tif you use LT or HT, I recomment using stumps. I never do emax without sumps for correct colors. I aslo use 95% of all cases LT, V or HT. Very rarely do I use MO or HO.

Why only LT,V or HT on 95% ? Is there something about MO & HO I should know about?

Russ

 

[GoldRunner]

MO and HO are considered "ingots to layer", (refer to the manual) while HT and LT are usually used for monolithic crowns. The LTs blend very nicely and pick up adjacent color, and interact with the surface stains to create the illusion of different layers. Value control can be very difficult with HT/LT, so there is no reason why you can not use MO for a higher value restoration, but you will have to stain it with a slightly different technique. I like GC's Luster, and DVA's polishing paste. Emax is is so "toothy" it likes micro texture and differential polishing. The first ones I delivered were dubbed, "the best crowns I have ever made", the rest is history, welcome to the wave.

As suggested earlier, gray/blue, and white/cream to accentuate the cusps can really make the case glow. Of course your work is fantastic, and will put most of us to shame. Thanks for the many years of contributing real continuing education rather than advertisement/edutainment.

 

[dmonwaxa]

At first it sounded a bit harsh, but great tips nontheless. Lots of respect for Russ so I know it was difficult unless you've been under a rock. Yes! old dogs can learn new tricks, and can still run circles around us; its great to pay homage to one who has devoted his life to teaching. I'm sure there's no disrespect and Russ should be equally proud; the student shares with the teacher. Thanks for your candor. Old schoolers are getting up to speed with emax, and new schoolers are mastering CAD/CAM; what a difference.

 

[Toast]

Russ, once again nice crowns and photography. Sorry, I didn't mean to open this can of worms inquiring if you used LT ingots. I have a hard time getting the LT's to look life like so now I'm even more impressed knowing you used MO1. Thanks again for sharing your work with us, I look forward to the results from the Dr. and maybe some pics.

I definatly need to get down to Raleigh for your waxing course, I'm just over the VA line about 2.5 hours away so I don't have any excuses.

Brad

 

[Al.]

I didn't mean to open this can of worms inquiring if you used LT ingots. I have a hard time getting the LT's to look life like

Brad

Brad its not just you having a hard time to make press and stain LT look life like in the mouth.

Ive asked for and gotten alot of feed back from Drs and gotten alot of pics back for LT, alot of pics of posterior press and stain.

What Ive seen is that most press and stain emax LTs are acceptable but do not dissapear in the mouth. They may look perfect on the model but in the mouth they look caulky and not trans enough.

They look good for normal talking distances but for picky drs that take pics they stand out.

HT press and stain can look much better but ingot selection is challanging you have to go a couple of shades lighter and stain the chroma in. If I have a call for a A2 and use a A2 Ht it will most often look like a dead root canal tooth.

I have gotten the best results and I have pics to show for U Bis, or Molars (picky Drs) I wax full contour to the incisal edge (for strength) and scoop out the facial, layer denitn and incisl on the facial.
The LTs do not have the rich chroma on the gin that most posteriors have.
I could also stain it then layer incisal over the gin. but it is faster for me to add dentin.

I used to just carry the incisal all the way down to cover the LT core but I had complaints that they were too grey or monocromatic so I use dentin now.

MO is nice for layered anteriors but I have found the core needs to all be layered where it will be seen because it is too opaque to blend in with most teeth even with stain on it.
I have been using alot of V1-3 but I make a composite stump die to shade check and I go light on the incisal or they wil grey.

 

[DeVreugd]

I want to thank all of you for contributing to this thread !
I may be an old timer but still love learning !! LOL
My dear friend, Pat S. (retired) from Ivoclar..... he made me do it!!

Russ

 

[Toast]

Al, thanks for the reply and the tips. I'm defiantly going to try layering the buccal on the next fc emax case. I've also done some fc emax in ht and gone a shade lighter but staining in all that chroma can sometimes add another set of problems, but like you said the results are usually better than fc LT. Thanks again. Brad

 

[Bobby Orr ceramics]

MO? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought HO and MO are only for the layering technique, not recommended full contour or cut-back technique, that's what LT, HT, and now Impulse are for?

Rob, you're correct. HO has the opacity of dirt that requires layering thickness like a pfm. I've used some MO's in very thin applications to get the value right. I find often the value of the LT ingots is very low to what Ivoclar's cheat sheet claims......with or without layering. In general we press an MO or LT ingot that is 2 values brighter than desired shade whether it's layered or full contour.

Sorry for diarhea of the mouth explanation....... James

 

[dmonwaxa]

I want to thank all of you for contributing to this thread !
I may be an old timer but still love learning !! LOL
My dear friend, Pat S. (retired) from Ivoclar..... he made me do it!!

Russ

Not just an oldtimer Russ, you're regarded with the highest esteem. Your experience will definitely shorten the learning curve and you'll be teaching us a thing or two like you have already.

 

[thewhitelab]

Paul, Russ i see you both recently spent some time with oliver brix, i have just returned from his course over at his lab in Germany. i'm sure he mentioned he uses HT only (like Al mentioned one shade up) as full contour molars using GC luster whats been your experience?

 

[DeVreugd]

Paul, Russ i see you both recently spent some time with oliver brix, i have just returned from his course over at his lab in Germany. i'm sure he mentioned he uses HT only (like Al mentioned one shade up) as full contour molars using GC luster whats been your experience?

That's funny, he told us to use MO layered !!! Am I right Paul?
No mention of GC lustre unless I had a senior moment & missed it!!
What say you Paul????? We did not do a posterior unit.

 

[dmonwaxa]

That's funny, he told us to use MO layered !!! Am I right Paul?
No mention of GC lustre unless I had a senior moment & missed it!!
What say you Paul????? We did not do a posterior unit.

Russ, my guess for the difference of information could be due to the location. The color charactersitics are somewhat different when comparing the teeth of European an that of Americans. The fact that bleach dentistry is more popular here in the US would influence shade whereas the aunatural is prevalent in Europe, hence HT. IMHO

 

[paulg100]

Russ you fell aspleep :sleep:2

He was using MO mostly for anterior stuff and fully layering.

For posteriors his using HT 1 shade brighter than the required shade and using GC luster glaze.

Once the multi layered ingots launch in the summer alot of this could change again.

Whitlab: good to hear there are some other techs in the UK getting some quality education, where in the UK are you and how were the facilities at Oliver's in germany, ill hopefully make it out there too, in the not to distant future.