e-max pressing parameters in Cerampress QEX

Skullduggery

Skullduggery

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Hi everyone!
I am new to the Dental Lab Network and I have a question about e-max. I have been using a Ney Cerampress QEX very successfully for over ten years to press several different brands of leucite pellets ( Cerpress, Creation CP,
Avante ). I would like to try the e-max system but I have been told that it is very tricky to press in the Ney furnace. Can anyone offer insight into this?
Thanks
 
doug

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Buy a tube of ingots and consider them an investment in learning what it's gonna take to get the pressing parameters set.
 
sixonice

sixonice

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Hi everyone!
I am new to the Dental Lab Network and I have a question about e-max. I have been using a Ney Cerampress QEX very successfully for over ten years to press several different brands of leucite pellets ( Cerpress, Creation CP,
Avante ). I would like to try the e-max system but I have been told that it is very tricky to press in the Ney furnace. Can anyone offer insight into this?
Thanks

welcome to the forum! yes, this topic has been discussed MANY times over the past several months. you will find many archived posts dicussing this very topic. you are correct though, pressing leucite glass was an easier deal in various pressing ovens. like what was posted earlier, you will have to start with a vial of ingots and begin dialing parameters in - i would suggest beginning by increasing your high temperature 20 degrees celcius to start with and also start with a 9 minute pressing time.
 
capickettcdt

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We found at Whip Mix that it takes only about 3 minutes of presstime if the temp is correct. Follow the IVOCLAR recomendations except for press time which they won't give you. If the nine minutes is too long you will get a greater reaction layer. Make sure that you hace cool time set to '0'
 
TheLabGuy

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We found at Whip Mix that it takes only about 3 minutes of presstime if the temp is correct. Follow the IVOCLAR recomendations except for press time which they won't give you. If the nine minutes is too long you will get a greater reaction layer. Make sure that you hace cool time set to '0'

Has Whip Mix released there parameters to the public yet?
 
capickettcdt

capickettcdt

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NO... You (Rob) use a slightly different set than we have been using here and they are working...I wouldn't change a thing. I've had folks with longer press times have reaction layers that were unacceptable so we ratcheted back and got good results.
We have been suggesting that the users use all of the Ivoclar numbers for both the 100 and the 200 gram rings and then use press times based on the weight of the wax pattern and sprue (just like the old empress days prior to EP5&6). That means that your press time could be anywhere from 2 minutes to 5 minutes. We haven't published anything really....because that buys into the IVOCLAR idea that the furnace controlls the glass...this is not true. The glass and the manufacturer of the glass determine how it will be fired (ask any manufacturer except Ivoclar) not the furnace. It heats up at a specific rate...holds vac...and presses or releases. Glass manufacturer...tell me what you need for your glass and I'll program the furnace to do it....unless you want to leave out an important piece and try to turn the industry on its ear so you can sell furnaces.
(I've spent too much of my day answering Ivoclar "won't tell me" or "they just want to sell me a furnace" comments and questions. I always thought that the money was in the TP not the TP holder!!
Well enough said. There are folks who are very successful with our furnace (present company included) and very successful with the EP's. The dialing in is always a good idea.
 
dmonwaxa

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NO... You (Rob) use a slightly different set than we have been using here and they are working...I wouldn't change a thing. I've had folks with longer press times have reaction layers that were unacceptable so we ratcheted back and got good results.
We have been suggesting that the users use all of the Ivoclar numbers for both the 100 and the 200 gram rings and then use press times based on the weight of the wax pattern and sprue (just like the old empress days prior to EP5&6). That means that your press time could be anywhere from 2 minutes to 5 minutes. We haven't published anything really....because that buys into the IVOCLAR idea that the furnace controlls the glass...this is not true. The glass and the manufacturer of the glass determine how it will be fired (ask any manufacturer except Ivoclar) not the furnace. It heats up at a specific rate...holds vac...and presses or releases. Glass manufacturer...tell me what you need for your glass and I'll program the furnace to do it....unless you want to leave out an important piece and try to turn the industry on its ear so you can sell furnaces.
(I've spent too much of my day answering Ivoclar "won't tell me" or "they just want to sell me a furnace" comments and questions. I always thought that the money was in the TP not the TP holder!!
Well enough said. There are folks who are very successful with our furnace (present company included) and very successful with the EP's. The dialing in is always a good idea.

ca, can't an argument be made that the glass isn't being processed in the same way as advocated by ivoclar; and what about the FDA POV about it's deviation in processing?
 
sixonice

sixonice

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NO... You (Rob) use a slightly different set than we have been using here and they are working...I wouldn't change a thing. I've had folks with longer press times have reaction layers that were unacceptable so we ratcheted back and got good results.
We have been suggesting that the users use all of the Ivoclar numbers for both the 100 and the 200 gram rings and then use press times based on the weight of the wax pattern and sprue (just like the old empress days prior to EP5&6). That means that your press time could be anywhere from 2 minutes to 5 minutes. We haven't published anything really....because that buys into the IVOCLAR idea that the furnace controlls the glass...this is not true. The glass and the manufacturer of the glass determine how it will be fired (ask any manufacturer except Ivoclar) not the furnace. It heats up at a specific rate...holds vac...and presses or releases. Glass manufacturer...tell me what you need for your glass and I'll program the furnace to do it....unless you want to leave out an important piece and try to turn the industry on its ear so you can sell furnaces.
(I've spent too much of my day answering Ivoclar "won't tell me" or "they just want to sell me a furnace" comments and questions. I always thought that the money was in the TP not the TP holder!!
Well enough said. There are folks who are very successful with our furnace (present company included) and very successful with the EP's. The dialing in is always a good idea.

what do expect ivoclar to do when customers call and ask what parameters to use in a whip mix oven? i mean really...think about it.
also, back in october or so ivoclar DID send out a technical article to all of its customers (with or without their pressing oven) and detailed on how to dial in competitor pressing ovens.
 
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