e.max CAD milling machine options

[Orto]

Hello everyone !

I´m a DDS in Aguascalientes Mexico, i have a small dental office and i focus my practice in dental implants and oral rehabilitation, actually i´m in the middle of the master degree in Prosthodontics and dental implants, so i want to get a milling machine to fabricate my restorations, now a days only offer e.max and i sent my works to an external lab, but there is some issues like delayed deliveries and i´m not very happy with that.

Recently i bought a used MEDIT SE scanner i only use for scan models for fabrication of 3D surgical guides, now i really want the milling machine, my options are:

Roland DWX4-W
Wielland Hybrid
Amman Girrbach ceramill mikro ic

i´d really appreciate your advice and valuable opinions !

Thank You

 

[JMN]

Greetings Earthling! Welcome!

Very nice that you decided to continue your education! Outstanding.

The very first thing I'd ask is "are you giving up on labs entirely because you have found a bad one instead of a good one?"
It could, rather will be, a costly decision to mill in house as you become a lab with all the training, learning curve, materials testing, material handling and technique knowledge, maintenance, supply stocking, backorder issues, and at least one additional employee to do lab work that all implies and will require. It will not remove the lab issues or the lab bill, you'll just make it all your problem and the bill hard to see.

It is your rodeo, certainly, and your decision. I just want to make sure you see clearly the picture that buying a mill is barely the begining. It may be odd but this could roughly compare to wanting the benifits of a 25 year marraige, 3 children, 2 grandchildren and home ownership, but only thinking about getting engaged to marry.

I could be very wrong, and you may have considered all the addiional details, but I believe it is better to make certain and maybe save someone lots of pain, money, and headache.

Now that is all said:
The largest issue, especially for a first time mill owner, is rock solid support. Can you get good solid support for all of these, or just one or two of them over the internet and/or by phone. When something goes wrong, or if you need help to find and replace a faulty part will you be able to count on someone to guide you and who will supply in depth technical knowledge to assist you when everything should work right but still does not.

The other support consideration is by who and where will your restoration components be milled if your machine is down and cannot be fixed by just fiddling with some wires and settings, and it does need a part, or worse, to go back to the dealer or manufacturer for servicing.

These answers will be a neccesary part of what is right for you.

 

[Sevan P]

Welcome

I would rule the Roland out, heard too many issues milling with good results. We recently bought a Hybrid Select and have had great results with it. Yes it is costly but worth it. You just need to stay on top of the maintance with the synergy liquid. Cleaning it and changing filters on time along with burs is a must. But the Spindle is the weakest part of the mill. usually 1 to 2 spindles a year depending on your upkeep of the mill. You can also look at the Doo Won Aurum 5X-200 built for metal cutting and glass built very well for wet milling. Don't know much about the AG mills. But what ever you do make it worth it for the long run.

 

[Orto]

Greetings Earthling! Welcome!

Very nice that you decided to continue your education! Outstanding.

The very first thing I'd ask is "are you giving up on labs entirely because you have found a bad one instead of a good one?"
It could, rather will be, a costly decision to mill in house as you become a lab with all the training, learning curve, materials testing, material handling and technique knowledge, maintenance, supply stocking, backorder issues, and at least one additional employee to do lab work that all implies and will require. It will not remove the lab issues or the lab bill, you'll just make it all your problem and the bill hard to see.

It is your rodeo, certainly, and your decision. I just want to make sure you see clearly the picture that buying a mill is barely the begining. It may be odd but this could roughly compare to wanting the benifits of a 25 year marraige, 3 children, 2 grandchildren and home ownership, but only thinking about getting engaged to marry.

I could be very wrong, and you may have considered all the addiional details, but I believe it is better to make certain and maybe save someone lots of pain, money, and headache.

Now that is all said:
The largest issue, especially for a first time mill owner, is rock solid support. Can you get good solid support for all of these, or just one or two of them over the internet and/or by phone. When something goes wrong, or if you need help to find and replace a faulty part will you be able to count on someone to guide you and who will supply in depth technical knowledge to assist you when everything should work right but still does not.

The other support consideration is by who and where will your restoration components be milled if your machine is down and cannot be fixed by just fiddling with some wires and settings, and it does need a part, or worse, to go back to the dealer or manufacturer for servicing.

These answers will be a neccesary part of what is right for you.

Thank you both, and yes i´ve consider all those factors you´ve mentioned JMN, i forgot to told you i used to have a little dental lab, i had a EP3000 (i sell it) but dealing with employees here in Aguascalientes is a pain in the.., one fine day they don´t show up and all the work is delayed again, in the school where i´m enrolled they have a CEREC and there is only one guy who scan the models or the patient, design, mill and glaze or add stains and that´s it.

So i think for my clinic and profile is good option to copy cat that style of work flow.

Talking about the money is also a challenge of course, dental market in mexico is very complicated, there is no like in the USA or Canada, so i´m loooking for a lease option so all the payments for the milling machine will be deductible.

I have a PLAN B, let me tell you and i´d like to hear your opinion, the plan B consist on get a licence for EXOCAD, then scan the models with the Identica SE scanner, design and print the crowns in a castable material using a 3D SLA/DLP 3D printer, then invest and press. What do you think about it ?

Regards

 

[Contraluz]

Hello everyone !
I´m a DDS in Aguascalientes Mexico, i have a small dental office and i focus my practice in dental implants and oral rehabilitation, actually i´m in the middle of the master degree in Prosthodontics and dental implants, so i want to get a milling machine to fabricate my restorations, now a days only offer e.max

Hola, Orto. If your only concern is e.max, you may want to look into the new mill Ivocar is offering. It seems to be a perfect fit for your needs. It's small and aimed at dental offices and/or labs that want to mill e.max.

Saludos,

M

 

[JMN]

Thank you both, and yes i´ve consider all those factors you´ve mentioned JMN, i forgot to told you i used to have a little dental lab, i had a EP3000 (i sell it) but dealing with employees here in Aguascalientes is a pain in the.., one fine day they don´t show up and all the work is delayed again, in the school where i´m enrolled they have a CEREC and there is only one guy who scan the models or the patient, design, mill and glaze or add stains and that´s it.

So i think for my clinic and profile is good option to copy cat that style of work flow.

Talking about the money is also a challenge of course, dental market in mexico is very complicated, there is no like in the USA or Canada, so i´m loooking for a lease option so all the payments for the milling machine will be deductible.

I have a PLAN B, let me tell you and i´d like to hear your opinion, the plan B consist on get a licence for EXOCAD, then scan the models with the Identica SE scanner, design and print the crowns in a castable material using a 3D SLA/DLP 3D printer, then invest and press. What do you think about it ?

Regards

That information does change things. I wish you all the best, and am unable to offer anything close to good advice or input on the rest. Great ingles by the way, far better than my muy mal espanol.

 

[Orto]

LOL, thank you, you should practice tu español, see you around


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[Orto]

Hola, Orto. If your only concern is e.max, you may want to look into the new mill Ivocar is offering. It seems to be a perfect fit for your needs. It's small and aimed at dental offices and/or labs that want to mill e.max.

Saludos,

M

Hola Contraluz, no he visto la nueva fresador de Ivoclar, ya esta a la venta? solo me ofrecieron la de Wielland Hybrid.
Hi, Contraluz, I don´t know the new Ivoclar Milling machine, is allready on sale ? They only offfered me the Hybrid Wielland

 

[JMN]

LOL, thank you, you should practice tu español, see you around


Enviado desde mi iPad utilizando Tapatalk

Mayor de tiempe, yo esto en mi pequeno mundo, y todo dia yo hecho las sonrisas. Nesecitito un otra persona dolar me un mano aqui. no tiempre por idomas! Buenos noches.

 

[Contraluz]

Hola Contraluz, no he visto la nueva fresador de Ivoclar, ya esta a la venta? solo me ofrecieron la de Wielland Hybrid.
Hi, Contraluz, I don´t know the new Ivoclar Milling machine, is allready on sale ? They only offfered me the Hybrid Wielland

Mira: http://www.ivoclardigital.com/en/laboratory/equipment-and-cam/programill-one

I don't know bout a time line, but this mill will be available, soon. It may be worth the wait.

Additionally, have you thought about designing your inlays/onlays/crowns digitally, mill them in wax (very quick) and press them with your ep 3000? Sure, it may not make that much sense looking at the mill above...

Saludos

M

 

[Orto]

Mira: http://www.ivoclardigital.com/en/laboratory/equipment-and-cam/programill-one

I don't know bout a time line, but this mill will be available, soon. It may be worth the wait.

Additionally, have you thought about designing your inlays/onlays/crowns digitally, mill them in wax (very quick) and press them with your ep 3000? Sure, it may not make that much sense looking at the mill above...

Saludos

M

I have no longer the EP3000 I sold it past December I bought many dental implants jjaajaja. And of course I've tough that option in fact a guy offers me a Used Katana 4 axis milling machine, he bought me the Idéntica SE scanner, the machine is a dry milling machine only for wax and zirconium, but now maybe he is not much clear about sell it right now, if I get it I need a new pressing furnace, BTW do you know the SUMMIT Pressing furnace ?
http://www.ibexdental.com/SUMMITPressingFurnace.html

Opinions ?



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[CoolHandLuke]

versamill is capable of milling emax blocks, as is imes. why arent these among your 'options' ? how did you arrive at that narrowed list?

among them i would go for he roland. but with the additional ability of puck milling, the Hybrid and versamill are hard to beat.

 

[Contraluz]

Opinions ?

Orto, no tengo opinión acerca de Summit. My experience is limited to Ivoclar's pressing furnaces. Also, I can tell you about ZirconZahn's scanners and 3Shape.
Regarding mills, all comes down to your needs and future plans. In most cases, a dry mill will do it. But, if you project to mill e.max in the future, well, you may want to look into one of the new Ivoclar mills, or ZZ. Either way, you will find a lot of opinions browsing through the forums here. However, one comment is, all have in common, that you should go with the brand that gives you after-buy support.

Espero que ayude...

M

 

[Torquadon]

You could also have a look at Yenadent D15. Best machine in this price range in my opinion. You can mill practically all dental materials with it. It is not the easiest machine to learn tough. If you want good results, material diversity , completely open system and you do not mind spend some time to learn it is great mill to have.

 

[James Babbi]

Welcome

I would rule the Roland out, heard too many issues milling with good results. We recently bought a Hybrid Select and have had great results with it. Yes it is costly but worth it. You just need to stay on top of the maintance with the synergy liquid. Cleaning it and changing filters on time along with burs is a must. But the Spindle is the weakest part of the mill. usually 1 to 2 spindles a year depending on your upkeep of the mill. You can also look at the Doo Won Aurum 5X-200 built for metal cutting and glass built very well for wet milling. Don't know much about the AG mills. But what ever you do make it worth it for the long run.

Hello everyone !

I´m a DDS in Aguascalientes Mexico, i have a small dental office and i focus my practice in dental implants and oral rehabilitation, actually i´m in the middle of the master degree in Prosthodontics and dental implants, so i want to get a milling machine to fabricate my restorations, now a days only offer e.max and i sent my works to an external lab, but there is some issues like delayed deliveries and i´m not very happy with that.

Recently i bought a used MEDIT SE scanner i only use for scan models for fabrication of 3D surgical guides, now i really want the milling machine, my options are:

Roland DWX4-W
Wielland Hybrid
Amman Girrbach ceramill mikro ic

i´d really appreciate your advice and valuable opinions !

Thank You

For the type of work you will do, the Roland DWX-4W would be ideal. Not only it will deliver restorations with beautiful margins and anatomy, it allows you to use so many different materials available in the universal pin-type mandrel. Some of the other units out there have proprietary connections and will limit your material options.
Finally, the Roland comes with a 2 year warranty, and it is very unlikely you would need to replace a spindle even once during the 2 year period. Let me know if you need more info and I can connect you with one of the Roland distributors in your country

 

[eyeloveteeth]

the DWX-4W is not reliable enough in my opinion. Wait for the Programill one and just be done with it.

 

[cadfan]

you think Roland is gaga ???

 

[James Babbi]

the DWX-4W is not reliable enough in my opinion. Wait for the Programill one and just be done with it.

I'm not sure what is your definition of reliable, especially if you haven't used one.We have several users who can provide a testimonial on the DWX-4W who are thrilled with it.
In the meantime, I would be skeptic about a mill that is brand new, has no history, and is limited in material options.

 

[eyeloveteeth]

who hasn't used a DWX4W before? oh you mean the one we bought and literally have sitting in the corner gathering dust next to an MCXL?

Mill quality was not very good, and quite frankly is an embarrassment to the roland line. Ive never met one user that was truly happy with the 4W. Sure the PM1 may be new, but from what we've seen and heard so far (maybe also including closed door demos) it's superior to anything else i've seen.

 

[James Babbi]

who hasn't used a DWX4W before? oh you mean the one we bought and literally have sitting in the corner gathering dust next to an MCXL?

Mill quality was not very good, and quite frankly is an embarrassment to the roland line. Ive never met one user that was truly happy with the 4W. Sure the PM1 may be new, but from what we've seen and heard so far (maybe also including closed door demos) it's superior to anything else i've seen.

I am sorry to hear you had quality issues, and although what you are sharing with me it is a very small percentage of cases, when it happens to you, it feel it's like 100%.
I would like to help and work with you on the issues you had. Please call me at 800.542.2307 ext 1275

By the way, what is your name and name of your lab?