DOF Craft 5x vs. 5x400

  • Thread starter Thread starter jmcfarlane
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JKraver said:
Well yours was the turning point of tongue in cheek comments.
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He wasn't taking the hint that the other posts were trying to tell him, so I just put it out there!
 
JKraver said:
Just wait for zirconia printing to mainstream. That will be another major blow to the field.
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no it won't.

its never going to mainstream because printing zirconia can never yield parts that have internal integrity. printing zirc is a waste of everyone's time until they get around the laws of physics.
 
jmcfarlane said:
Hope so. Thanks for the encouragement
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Don't listen to them.... Call DOF and get setup today. Your dentist really can't afford to not invest in digital technology.

And they've made it so easy today. The
DOF mill is simple to operate. Almost does it by itself.

I know several offices that mill zirconia crowns and seat while the patient waits.

You're probably going to need a 3D printer too so that you can place it on a model and fine tune the occlusion. A real good one is a Nextdent 5100. Has its own resins.
 
tehnik said:
I once was asked to build an inhouse lab / milling center to an office and to start to work in there. In the end I gave up on that, BUT when I was there I was asked to check on a crown, that was designed in the office. When I started to modify it (it was just auto generated sh!t) then the doctor asked, what the hell I am doing? I told that I am making this suggestion into a acceptable crown. The answer I got made my decision final - the computer generated the crown, it should know better and it was cerec :D

PS Just recently I heard that the same lab is generating such crowns (by a random worker - not technician), that doctors don't know in which direction to put it in the mouth - they look like cubes...
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Interesting topic but went a bit off rail ;)

I'd like some opinions from those who have or have worked with DOF milling, mainly Craft, but old ones could be insightful too. Suggestions of other similar machines, whether on the market or soon to be is also welcomed.
Oh, and I'm a dental technician, be nice boys ! =D

So from my understanding the Craft is their first milling machine made in house, could be half true since some parts and overwall look seems quite similar to arum machines, guess it's just that a lot of SK industries are interconnected or something.

I'll be acquiring my first milling machine in the next 18 months, and getting a lot of infos for making a wise decision is a real pain. I've had experiences with others where I used to work at, VHF (nice) and ZZ (meh!) mostly but they don't seem to have what gets my interest with the Craft.

Even though I'll be alone at first I'll then be getting a very young employee, I don't want her to do that kind of repetitive tasks. So I'm going for the DC version, in the long run It'll save me some time and works all night, wet a dry and I can focus on getting her very good very fast.

So I've set my eyes on the craft mainly for a couple reasons:

1) I do a lot of thin disi overlay and their connectorless option is very interesting to me, no need to cut and grind contact points. Basically mill, plaster wait, relaunch and you're good, pouf, everything fits. When milling 6 blocs at the same time this will be a big time saver for me.


2) They also have the submerged platform, not sure it's that useful but still, can't hurt.


3) One step milling. I only do screw retained crowns on ti base, polishing zirconia is taking me a lot of time so I'll probably mill a custom abutment and be done with it. Pre mill and ti base are the same price here. It mills, I don't polish, just anodized. Incisals will still be maximum surface polished ZR though.


4) 90° buccal milling, seems a lot of milling machine do this anyways.

5) No need for external compressor or vacuum unit. I'll keep my stanley 20L 59dB compressor lol.

6) For what it does, it doesn't take a lot of space and I can move it around for maintenance a setting it up in a new space.

So maybe there could be other stuff I'm forgetting but those are the main reasons.
Now, where I'm really in the dark are these important points, if you ever have a good understanding or experience.

1) I really want the ability to launch my milling when not at the lab, on windows I can use anydesk but it seems they have a custom OS, so ...
A lot of manufacturers offer a side app to check out if your milling is finished, has failed, or the wear of your burs, not able to launch, utter useless !

2) It seems it works with millbox and hyperdent and I have no experience with them, which is the best could be a false question though my intuition goes to hyperdent. I found VHF CAM 7 and 8 very clean and fast, you can even launch your mill before it's finished calculating.

3) Seems there's no distributor in France, but I can still get it, I just have no idea if support is going to be fine, especially, if, at the end of the day, the machine is not that good and often requires maintenance. If you or other technicians you know have any infos on that it'd be of great help.

4) Although I really dislike ZZ they give you the ability to use the PMMA 0.3 bur for glass blacks, I have very detailed anatomy and it makes a nice difference. From what DOF told me they're thinking of a couple of ways to manufacture one, not sure it'll ever happen. From what I recall 0.6 was fine with VHF but not sure it'll be the case with the Craft.

Anyways, sorry it's long, as always, these are pretty much the main points.

Help, I need somebody, help, not just anybody, help, I need a technician, heeeeeeelp

Cheers =)
 
I will give you my DOF mill for free! Its not even worth the freight cost to get it to you!

VHF makes a nice mill, but still has its issues.

Ive had amann, Imes, vhf, dof, .. I like what Imes offers, and VHF is right there along with them..
 
bigj1972 said:
Don't listen to them.... Call DOF and get setup today. Your dentist really can't afford to not invest in digital technology.

And they've made it so easy today. The
DOF mill is simple to operate. Almost does it by itself.

I know several offices that mill zirconia crowns and seat while the patient waits.

You're probably going to need a 3D printer too so that you can place it on a model and fine tune the occlusion. A real good one is a Nextdent 5100. Has its own resins.
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And lest not forget the Sirona 12 minute sinter oven 😂
 
Sda36 said:
And lest not forget the Sirona 12 minute sinter oven 😂
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I saw this about 3 years ago and actually asked the Sirona Rep, " Do you have a Zirconia block with these new physical properties to support this cycle"? What an expression...😂😂 I realize I said this before somewhere but seriously they will try to sell anything anywhere. Pt satisfaction is getting to pay again soon down the road. "Argo F yourself"😜
 
Thibaut said:
Interesting topic but went a bit off rail ;)

I'd like some opinions from those who have or have worked with DOF milling, mainly Craft, but old ones could be insightful too. Suggestions of other similar machines, whether on the market or soon to be is also welcomed.
Oh, and I'm a dental technician, be nice boys ! =D

So from my understanding the Craft is their first milling machine made in house, could be half true since some parts and overwall look seems quite similar to arum machines, guess it's just that a lot of SK industries are interconnected or something.

I'll be acquiring my first milling machine in the next 18 months, and getting a lot of infos for making a wise decision is a real pain. I've had experiences with others where I used to work at, VHF (nice) and ZZ (meh!) mostly but they don't seem to have what gets my interest with the Craft.

Even though I'll be alone at first I'll then be getting a very young employee, I don't want her to do that kind of repetitive tasks. So I'm going for the DC version, in the long run It'll save me some time and works all night, wet a dry and I can focus on getting her very good very fast.

So I've set my eyes on the craft mainly for a couple reasons:

1) I do a lot of thin disi overlay and their connectorless option is very interesting to me, no need to cut and grind contact points. Basically mill, plaster wait, relaunch and you're good, pouf, everything fits. When milling 6 blocs at the same time this will be a big time saver for me.


2) They also have the submerged platform, not sure it's that useful but still, can't hurt.


3) One step milling. I only do screw retained crowns on ti base, polishing zirconia is taking me a lot of time so I'll probably mill a custom abutment and be done with it. Pre mill and ti base are the same price here. It mills, I don't polish, just anodized. Incisals will still be maximum surface polished ZR though.


4) 90° buccal milling, seems a lot of milling machine do this anyways.

5) No need for external compressor or vacuum unit. I'll keep my stanley 20L 59dB compressor lol.

6) For what it does, it doesn't take a lot of space and I can move it around for maintenance a setting it up in a new space.

So maybe there could be other stuff I'm forgetting but those are the main reasons.
Now, where I'm really in the dark are these important points, if you ever have a good understanding or experience.

1) I really want the ability to launch my milling when not at the lab, on windows I can use anydesk but it seems they have a custom OS, so ...
A lot of manufacturers offer a side app to check out if your milling is finished, has failed, or the wear of your burs, not able to launch, utter useless !

2) It seems it works with millbox and hyperdent and I have no experience with them, which is the best could be a false question though my intuition goes to hyperdent. I found VHF CAM 7 and 8 very clean and fast, you can even launch your mill before it's finished calculating.

3) Seems there's no distributor in France, but I can still get it, I just have no idea if support is going to be fine, especially, if, at the end of the day, the machine is not that good and often requires maintenance. If you or other technicians you know have any infos on that it'd be of great help.

4) Although I really dislike ZZ they give you the ability to use the PMMA 0.3 bur for glass blacks, I have very detailed anatomy and it makes a nice difference. From what DOF told me they're thinking of a couple of ways to manufacture one, not sure it'll ever happen. From what I recall 0.6 was fine with VHF but not sure it'll be the case with the Craft.

Anyways, sorry it's long, as always, these are pretty much the main points.

Help, I need somebody, help, not just anybody, help, I need a technician, heeeeeeelp

Cheers =)
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You should call Gerald Ubassy, France, NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It would take you Ten years to begin to understand what you Should be doing with anything pertaining to technology. Buy one of his books as a start to see, at least, the goal of PT's BEST Treatment outcome.
If it fits past the lips, it fits isn't in there.
 
Sda36 said:
You should call Gerald Ubassy, France, NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It would take you Ten years to begin to understand what you Should be doing with anything pertaining to technology. Buy one of his books as a start to see, at least, the goal of PT's BEST Treatment outcome.
If it fits past the lips, it fits isn't in there.
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Thanks for the reply but I'm not sure I understand, well, anything you said XD
I think he's been retired since a year or so, I have the big fat blue book of his but it's irrelevant.
Nothing against him but I'm not sure boomers (no insult) have anything to teach me about technologies. I build my first PC before having sex, so.
And they have close relationships with the industry, I do not understand why someone would take an Ivoclar milling machine or anything that's just rebranded basically or products that are two to three times more expensive.
Anyways, could you develop about what is PT and those lips thing ? Has it anything to do with CADCAM ?
 
Affinity said:
I will give you my DOF mill for free! Its not even worth the freight cost to get it to you!

VHF makes a nice mill, but still has its issues.

Ive had amann, Imes, vhf, dof, .. I like what Imes offers, and VHF is right there along with them..
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Sure why not ! You're in the States ?
More seriously, is it one of their old milling machines ? What went wrong, bad support, failing hardware, precision, one material not correctly milling in particular ?
 
I'll ask the ten others when I find them =P
Did you get the Craft ? What exactly happened ?
 
I have the 5x. After less than a year they offered to trade it in on a roland and take it to the dump with the others, but I declined, so 2 techs from SK came and replaced about every replacable part but the spindle. Ran fine for another year, then I needed a new water pump bc its 220v, I cant just get one here. They told me they dont support it anymore, I never heard from them again until a month or so ago I got an automated text (1st ever) saying if I need service to reply back with 'yes'.. Banghead Biggest loss Ive ever taken as a lab owner.. since you asked.
 
Oh, sorry to hear about that. Unfortunately that's a big problem we get as dental technicians, making big investments for things we have no idea if it'll be good, as is and in time, and often no ways to get back things in our favour. Guess my new dof scanner freedom 5x will be a toss of a coin.
Good thing we have each other to help out then. A big guinea pig family !

I had a boss, longest lab I stayed at, 22 to 26 or something, colleagues and I were young. One day he explained quite simply to us how things worked. He would turn his back, bend over and shout "go for it the industry !"

Guess I'll go with what I'm familiar with or what you guys recommend, imes, vhf and roland. Not sure I'll take a risk with arum, too much machines seems like a bad sign for me, just like a restaurant with too many dishes on the menu, and my guts says no to amann.

But just fyi, you know dof closed their european branch a couple months ago, they opened a new r&d department last year. So don't know what happened in opaque corporate wonderland but perhaps heads fell and they're now changing course, you never know. Keep pushing them !

Thanks a lot for the infos, I suppose the other ten will be in the same vein ...
 
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