Dipping.

[mmbh]

If youre having cracking, others are likely too. make sure you the Argen. Maybe they have an updated sinter cycle to address the issue. Id consider slower heat rates, both up and down.

Yes, my people are talking with their people. Always good to explore backup options.

 

[Bryce Hiller]

I would like to ask what issues you've had with the katana zirconia. I am interested in trying some new stuff, beyond plus and katana on my list. We do a lot of Argen HT+ and it looks very nice, but there are a few issues with cracking after they have sat on the bench that concerns me. We never had that issue with the previous versions of their zirconia.

I've had breakage issues, particularly in connector areas. I've talked to other labs, and they've had this issue as well. I'm using Beyond Plus from Origin almost exclusively at this. Many advantages: 4-hour sinter cycle, MUCH stronger than STML (1,100 MPa vs 750ish),looks just as good (if not better),liquids are water-based (no furnace contaminants),list goes on. I'll never do another crown in STML, honestly. It's a good ZR, but we were just having too many crowns breaking. Haven't had a single issue with Origin.

 

[user name]

I've had breakage issues, particularly in connector areas. I've talked to other labs, and they've had this issue as well. I'm using Beyond Plus from Origin almost exclusively at this. Many advantages: 4-hour sinter cycle, MUCH stronger than STML (1,100 MPa vs 750ish),looks just as good (if not better),liquids are water-based (no furnace contaminants),list goes on. I'll never do another crown in STML, honestly. It's a good ZR, but we were just having too many crowns breaking. Haven't had a single issue with Origin.

Beyond plus has an updated sinter cycle. You cant sinter bridges in 4 hours. I don't have the pdf at hand, but you need to check with them. Its a very long slow cycle...because they've been getting cracks!

Liqiuds are water 'based'. Theyre still acid. You will get contamination.

Never had an STML break.

 

[user name]

Beyond Plus sinter cycle...to avoid cracks...

20/min to 1015 60 min hold
10/min to 1250 30 min hold
5/min to 1500 150 min hold

8/min cool to 250
I should add...these are my numbers. Origin actually wants you tocool much slower.

FYI. STML has a faster speed cycle than Origins, if you are in a rush.

 

[Bryce Hiller]

 

[Bryce Hiller]

Beyond Plus sinter cycle...to avoid cracks...

20/min to 1015 60 min hold
10/min to 1250 30 min hold
5/min to 1500 150 min hold

8/min cool to 250
I should add...these are my numbers. Origin actually wants you tocool much slower.

FYI. STML has a faster speed cycle than Origins, if you are in a rush.

I don't know where you're getting that cycle, but that's not what Origin indicates.

 

[user name]

I don't know where you're getting that cycle, but that's not what Origin indicates.

Youre having cracking and breakage problems. So are other labs. That's why they want you to use the new program. What you have is the old program that is causing problems.

They recommend when ever possible, use the long program.

 

[DanM]

No, not skinny or Skole. I thought I would mess around with it a little. Are some stains easier to work with ? I have one fairly busy account, 30 crowns a month and everyone of their patients have the same shade A3/A2 so I thought I would start there. I see allot of discussions and there looks like there are plenty out there. Is it just a questions of learning to work with each brand or are some better than others ? Thanks

Someone mentioned pre-shaded which would work great here but would be even better if you had a system that has a pre-shaded and white to color that sinters in the same program. That way you mill your white and while you are coloring and drying those you have your pre-shades milling and put them all in to sinter at once. Or just use what you're using for everything else and get like Katana ML that has a pretty quick cycle.

 

[Bryce Hiller]

Youre having cracking and breakage problems. So are other labs. That's why they want you to use the new program. What you have is the old program that is causing problems.
View attachment 29242 View attachment 29243
They recommend when ever possible, use the long program.

Hmm...very weird. I have a brochure (different than the one I posted) that shows the fast cycle appropriate for 3 unit bridges. And I just got it a month ago.

 

[user name]

Hmm...very weird. I have a brochure (different than the one I posted) that shows the fast cycle appropriate for 3 unit bridges. And I just got it a month ago.

Just trying to help you brother.

 

[Bryce Hiller]

Just trying to help you brother.

I know, I really appreciate it. I'm just confused why I wasn't given that information...

 

[2thm8kr]

user name gets special treatment.

 

[user name]

My Mom told me Im special.

 

[2thm8kr]

Mine too, but that was when I was loading up on the short bus.

 

[rkm rdt]

 

[Car 54]

I've had breakage issues, particularly in connector areas. I've talked to other labs, and they've had this issue as well. I'm using Beyond Plus from Origin almost exclusively at this. Many advantages: 4-hour sinter cycle, MUCH stronger than STML (1,100 MPa vs 750ish),looks just as good (if not better),liquids are water-based (no furnace contaminants),list goes on. I'll never do another crown in STML, honestly. It's a good ZR, but we were just having too many crowns breaking. Haven't had a single issue with Origin.

Also another advantage is more units per disc due to the lower shrink rate.

I've been using both Plus and regular Origin for about a year and a half. I can only remember 1 crack on a single.
Origin also recommends using a slow cool for your porc furnace. Maybe it's the way some labs are removing the sprues and doing
any light pre-sinter contouring, or overheating it in post sinter adjustments? I haven't done a lot of bridges, is that where more of the cracking occurs?

I've been using the 4:40 hour program (I decreased the cooling to 15c per mn) about 75% of the time for singles with no problems so far. They do look really nice with the 7+ hour program though, just a bit prettier and more translucent.

Did they unveil the white multi in Chicago?

 

[sndmn2]

I just started using some Zirlux Anterior Multi from Zahn. I have to admit , for me in my hands, It looks better than the results I got with Zolid FX or Katana. It is a 9 hour sinter, kinda sucks. Its going to be my go to for the moment and give me more time to play with some of the others. Argen is sending me a white disc and a couple liquids to try dipping. They also will be introducing some new stuff come April or May.

 

[MadmenJJ]

Question,
If you use discs with shade, wouldn't you have to have all the shades & sizes of zir. discs?
Then if you happened to get crowns that have one of each shades, that will be horrifying to mill...
or if you have lets say 3 crowns with A2 then just one A3, would you stain the crown after milling it from A2 block?
I think I heard someone saying that they mill shaded block then do coloring to change its shade a bit.
(I just have no idea, never had experience with shaded block but love to)

 

[CoolHandLuke]

Question,
If you use discs with shade, wouldn't you have to have all the shades & sizes of zir. discs?
Then if you happened to get crowns that have one of each shades, that will be horrifying to mill...
or if you have lets say 3 crowns with A2 then just one A3, would you stain the crown after milling it from A2 block?
I think I heard someone saying that they mill shaded block then do coloring to change its shade a bit.
(I just have no idea, never had experience with shaded block but love to)

blocks of a single shade used to be an interesting idea, until people recognized the need exactly as you say, for all sizes and shades.

now with multishaded discs that only come in 2 or 3 size varieties, thats not necessary.

you can place a crown in a puck too thick for it, and get the right level of shade variance from ging to incisal; all depends on the angle and z level where its placed in the disc.

then you can stick to small shade modifications instead of extensive shade mofidicaptions.

because adding incisal is more difficult than adding cervical shade.