Dental Lab vs Dentist Pricing

[NickBtheCDT]

Ive always assumed that when we lab techs create a crown for a dentist and charge him, say, $90 per unit, how much typically does a dentist charge the patient's insurance? I always assumed they charged 10x. Why on earth do these dentists haggle over a $90 crown and push so hard for a discount when they are charging 10x over? It always amazed me how nuts that is. If you're a dentist whose lab bill is only $2500/month, yet you're billing insurance $25k, it just seems if you're getting a quality crown, you'd be glad to pay $2500 and not try to haggle it down to $2100.

 

[FASTFNGR]

Ive always assumed that when we lab techs create a crown for a dentist and charge him, say, $90 per unit, how much typically does a dentist charge the patient's insurance? I always assumed they charged 10x. Why on earth do these dentists haggle over a $90 crown and push so hard for a discount when they are charging 10x over? It always amazed me how nuts that is. If you're a dentist whose lab bill is only $2500/month, yet you're billing insurance $25k, it just seems if you're getting a quality crown, you'd be glad to pay $2500 and not try to haggle it down to $2100.

Oh boy you just opened a pandora box. Some say school loans, office set up that cost 1/2 millions dollars, staff and chair time cost to cover all expenses. Plus someone has to pay for the expensive car and nice home and vacations. The more money you make the bigger your expenses. They think in a different way than us. The cheaper they get it the more money in their pocket. Also do not forget lawyers and law suits and malpractice insurance too. Add all that up and you get your answer from the other side and not necessarily mine.

 

[desertfox384]

Their huge overhead is the obvious answer, and that’s more a problem with peoples complacency towards holding massive debt than anything.
To be fair what business owner doesn’t go over their expenses ? You’ve never asked for a better price on something from your supplier ? I totally get it.

What I don’t get is when a doc will go elsewhere for a sub par product to a wal mart lab to save 20 dollars. There’s a difference between greed and being a responsible business owner.

 

[doug]

Since anyone can open a lab as there are no real qualifiers to do it, new labs have generally priced themselves lower to capture some work. You can never recover from that. I remember when the ratio was $90 for a crown, $180 to the patient. Everyone made a decent living. It would be nice for there to be a group similar to what the farmers have, that the orange growers have, that the automotive industry has where there is an actual bottom price and up from there. If you spend your career worrying about being able to raise your fees to make a living then you know that the pricing is out of order. All of the fees need to be raised to a livable level. Some people seem to think that they are running a hobby shop not a business

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

Since anyone can open a lab as there are no real qualifiers to do it, new labs have generally priced themselves lower to capture some work. You can never recover from that. I remember when the ratio was $90 for a crown, $180 to the patient. Everyone made a decent living. It would be nice for there to be a group similar to what the farmers have, that the orange growers have, that the automotive industry has where there is an actual bottom price and up from there. If you spend your career worrying about being able to raise your fees to make a living then you know that the pricing is out of order. All of the fees need to be raised to a livable level. Some people seem to think that they are running a hobby shop not a business

the problem is what you think is a livable wage vs another lab. rural vs urban. and well, how "livable" you want to be vs the guy down the road.
of course, that means....really....its already set as a livable wage. because the guy offering a $45 crown is still alive. so that argument goes out the window real fast.

that said, we absolutely need to set a standard as an industry. average fees are pretty much the exact same as they were when i started in the industry, nearly 30 years ago. sad, truly sad. keep it up though as we as an industry will keep shrinking and AI crowns in office will take over haha

 

[zero_zero]

Ive always assumed that when we lab techs create a crown for a dentist and charge him, say, $90 per unit, how much typically does a dentist charge the patient's insurance? I always assumed they charged 10x. Why on earth do these dentists haggle over a $90 crown and push so hard for a discount when they are charging 10x over? It always amazed me how nuts that is. If you're a dentist whose lab bill is only $2500/month, yet you're billing insurance $25k, it just seems if you're getting a quality crown, you'd be glad to pay $2500 and not try to haggle it down to $2100.

We have the lab fee and the dentist fee separated, no markup on the crowns...

 

[RileyS]

I just keep my prices the same because I find great joy in seeing my clients get new cars and trucks and snowmobiles and boats and many over the top vacations each year. I don't need anything fancy or new. I love my old 2006 Tundra! With it's... cloth seats, and... finicky AC and vent controls...and...umm...it's fancy button for the AC...and it's...gray color. So that's why I don't raise my prices anymore.
That, and I don't like losing all the simple posterior cases that help pad the coffers. Except I've lost all those to the cheap labs. Now I just get to enjoy the truly challenging work, day in and day out, from the pickiest of clients! It's truly my favorite!!
To all you Aholes that charge less than $100...I hope you're also enjoying your lives!! Heck, I'll include anyone under $120 nowadays (because I just looked up the value of $100,000 in 2021 and it takes $120,000 today to equal where we were just 4 years ago!! But I think we definitely should NOT raise our prices! In fact, we should lower them!)
(is my eye twitching while smiling psychotically?)

 

[labdude]

It's a mess. Example. There is a doc in town here, and most likely many other places, that charge $100.00 for a clear retainer. Same guy thinks it is ok to squeeze 2 models on the biostar to make these. Doesn't care about the fact that it makes them thinner, and weaker. So, he gets $200.00 for maybe 3 bucks worth of material? I understand cost of the biostar, office, lab, etc. These guys are just mostly greedy. Not all, but most. Got to get those turbos put in that lambo. Yes, I'm old and pissy. 56 years watching this crap. All ortho lab.

 

[labdude]

I just keep my prices the same because I find great joy in seeing my clients get new cars and trucks and snowmobiles and boats and many over the top vacations each year. I don't need anything fancy or new. I love my old 2006 Tundra! With it's... cloth seats, and... finicky AC and vent controls...and...umm...it's fancy button for the AC...and it's...gray color. So that's why I don't raise my prices anymore.
That, and I don't like losing all the simple posterior cases that help pad the coffers. Except I've lost all those to the cheap labs. Now I just get to enjoy the truly challenging work, day in and day out, from the pickiest of clients! It's truly my favorite!!
To all you Aholes that charge less than $100...I hope you're also enjoying your lives!! Heck, I'll include anyone under $120 nowadays (because I just looked up the value of $100,000 in 2021 and it takes $120,000 today to equal where we were just 4 years ago!! But I think we definitely should NOT raise our prices! In fact, we should lower them!)
(is my eye twitching while smiling psychotically?)

Both my eyes twitch.

 

[NickBtheCDT]

I just keep my prices the same because I find great joy in seeing my clients get new cars and trucks and snowmobiles and boats and many over the top vacations each year. I don't need anything fancy or new. I love my old 2006 Tundra! With it's... cloth seats, and... finicky AC and vent controls...and...umm...it's fancy button for the AC...and it's...gray color. So that's why I don't raise my prices anymore.
That, and I don't like losing all the simple posterior cases that help pad the coffers. Except I've lost all those to the cheap labs. Now I just get to enjoy the truly challenging work, day in and day out, from the pickiest of clients! It's truly my favorite!!
To all you Aholes that charge less than $100...I hope you're also enjoying your lives!! Heck, I'll include anyone under $120 nowadays (because I just looked up the value of $100,000 in 2021 and it takes $120,000 today to equal where we were just 4 years ago!! But I think we definitely should NOT raise our prices! In fact, we should lower them!)
(is my eye twitching while smiling psychotically?)

My eyes twitched just reading it. lol. Part of me thinks it WILL TAKE a large lot of labs suddenly raising prices to $180 and simply telling doctors "We're more expensive than most, so only use us for picky patients." You're bound to get at least some work from those doctors.

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

Both my eyes twitch.

isnt that just blinking?

 

[labdude]

the problem is what you think is a livable wage vs another lab. rural vs urban. and well, how "livable" you want to be vs the guy down the road.
of course, that means....really....its already set as a livable wage. because the guy offering a $45 crown is still alive. so that argument goes out the window real fast.

that said, we absolutely need to set a standard as an industry. average fees are pretty much the exact same as they were when i started in the industry, nearly 30 years ago. sad, truly sad. keep it up though as we as an industry will keep shrinking and AI crowns in office will take over haha

Yup, desires and location mean a lot. I'm capable of off grid totally now. Ortho lab for 56 years. Left LA, moved to forest in Oregon, 34 years ago.
Needs and overhead are really low. However, I do almost match prices of larger labs. Under cut prices? Why? If you are in a city, you do that.
Attended many AAO and PCSO meetings as an exhibitor, last one was back in 97. I use FedEx and UPS to ship. AI stuff? Digital? Actually, made it easier for me. Cut shipping costs by more than half. Weird world, fun world.

 

[GG - J]

I just keep my prices the same because I find great joy in seeing my clients get new cars and trucks and snowmobiles and boats and many over the top vacations each year. I don't need anything fancy or new. I love my old 2006 Tundra! With it's... cloth seats, and... finicky AC and vent controls...and...umm...it's fancy button for the AC...and it's...gray color. So that's why I don't raise my prices anymore.
That, and I don't like losing all the simple posterior cases that help pad the coffers. Except I've lost all those to the cheap labs. Now I just get to enjoy the truly challenging work, day in and day out, from the pickiest of clients! It's truly my favorite!!
To all you Aholes that charge less than $100...I hope you're also enjoying your lives!! Heck, I'll include anyone under $120 nowadays (because I just looked up the value of $100,000 in 2021 and it takes $120,000 today to equal where we were just 4 years ago!! But I think we definitely should NOT raise our prices! In fact, we should lower them!)
(is my eye twitching while smiling psychotically?)

very well said/ we just had to call an office that we have dealt with for around 2 years / our sales rep had contacted them because we noticed about a 30% decrease in the lab work over the last few months

the office response oh you are still our anterior lab / our posteriors go to a local guy at less than half your fee

fyi we charge $129 for FCZ and $149 FOR PFZ

 

[RileyS]

very well said/ we just had to call an office that we have dealt with for around 2 years / our sales rep had contacted them because we noticed about a 30% decrease in the lab work over the last few months

the office response oh you are still our anterior lab / our posteriors go to a local guy at less than half your fee

fyi we charge $129 for FCZ and $149 FOR PFZ

You’re living the dream!!

Is the “local lab guy” in Oregon, by chance?

 

[GG - J]

You’re living the dream!!

Is the “local lab guy” in Oregon, by chance?

yep, living the dream 1 day at a time

lol no Atlanta

 

[RileyS]

This week I just ran into several situations where some products I'm buying (non-dental related) have increased their prices from 20%-50% within the last year. Meanwhile dentists are asking for 50% off of my prices. Ok they're not asking. They are letting me know that's why they stopped sending 90% of their work to me. They only want to pay $65.

 

[GG - J]

This week I just ran into several situations where some products I'm buying (non-dental related) have increased their prices from 20%-50% within the last year. Meanwhile dentists are asking for 50% off of my prices. Ok they're not asking. They are letting me know that's why they stopped sending 90% of their work to me. They only want to pay $65.

sorry you are going thru this - $65 for a crown is hard pill to swallow / its not as if they are lowering their fee or even passing the savings on to the patient

 

[zero_zero]

This week I just ran into several situations where some products I'm buying (non-dental related) have increased their prices from 20%-50% within the last year. Meanwhile dentists are asking for 50% off of my prices. Ok they're not asking. They are letting me know that's why they stopped sending 90% of their work to me. They only want to pay $65.

Jeez... I get to charge more than double of that in a place considered the 3rd world...

 

[victormasi]

Its a sad topic.....after 45+yrs of fabricating everything in the dental technology spectrum, nothing changes....especially our opinion of what we do.
When my son became an oral surgeon 3 years ago, he verified what I always knew....its ALWAYS the lab's fault for restorations that fail, and they
are taught by the schools and their peers to always coerce one lab against the others.

 

[KKnapp]

This week I just ran into several situations where some products I'm buying (non-dental related) have increased their prices from 20%-50% within the last year. Meanwhile dentists are asking for 50% off of my prices. Ok they're not asking. They are letting me know that's why they stopped sending 90% of their work to me. They only want to pay $65.

Its not the $price that matters most it's the $$VALUE. What else are you offering for your crown price?
No fault remakes, personalized service for case planning or custom shades, consultation on day of patient cementation, 24 hour turn around, 24 hr 365 day service,.. GO BEYOND and WHERE OTHER DENTAL LABS WILL NOT GO!