Dental lab fees for 3-D models

[JKraver]

Not to mention the value of the dollar has dropped significantly every year. My sub 100 dollar grocery bill has gone to 120-140 and we buy the same things since last year,

 

[doug]

Let's say an I-phone cost $45 to make, Apple would be stupid to sell it for $80. Profit is made at the POS. Not hoping you can be priced low enough to sell 100,000 units into the future to make a profit.

This is why I don't understand anyone except JG doing Zirconia crowns for $100. It shouldn't matter what your fee is, as long as it's reasonable. I have doc who up-sell to zirconia as a premium restoration. WTH?! Why expect the lab to roll over on that?

My cost is of no business to them.

 

[bigj1972]

I looked over an ad today of the Renfert Simplex. It's an FDM printer for making models. According to the specs, it looks like it uses a .04 nozzle like my Ender 5. Pretty much a regular FDM sold as a dental printer. Didn't see any special specs. They're promoting as biodegradable, but sounds like PMA to me.

Renfert Simplex

 

[PCDL]

For those of you asking, Im not using cheap chinese ZR. Im using Amann Girrbach (for now).

 

[PCDL]

This is exactly what I was asking, I want to know the brand, as it sounds like a cheap Chinese to me. I have twice the price per unit and I am using Katana, Pritidenta, Nacera, Aidite and Dental Direkt.

Why are you using 5 different Zr lines? Your buying power is 20% of what it could potentially be. I use 2 suppliers, AG for my day to day stuff, and another one for my Full Arch work.

 

[Markyboy]

I just finished working on the 3 cases with digital Carbon models from Argen. My first impression was not good. Its like they are trying to save material, models are thin and flexible. Removable dies have lateral movement when placed in the model. Zirc fit on the die with no adjustments.
We will see if I get any more from this Dr after he sees the bill.

Models I used to get from Itero a few years ago were solid and felt stronger. Anyone know what material Itero uses? Would that be more like the Argen T Models?
All of the digital models lack the detail a stone model can provide.

 

[bigj1972]

To make it more profitable, they're printing hollow to minimize resin. Also probably printing at 100micron because that doubles the speed of printing at 50.
More production, less cost = profit for them, crap 4 you.

 

[tehnik]

Why are you using 5 different Zr lines? Your buying power is 20% of what it could potentially be. I use 2 suppliers, AG for my day to day stuff, and another one for my Full Arch work.

I am buying 4 of them from the same reseller so I am getting discount on volume on all of them and one I am buying directly from manufacturer with reseller prices. AG in our region is 1,5 times higher in price than any of the five I am using. And to answer your question - I am milling material that my clients know and request.

 

[doug]

itero models are milled, carbon is printed. We print a solid model with a separate die. Life is much easier. We have no issues with the Asiga printer we have.

 

[John in Canada]

Ok what about all the Canadian labs out there.
Argen charging 19/quadrant + 5/die + 25 shipping = 68$/model !!!!
Ok I am saving on pickup costs and making a model out of stone but... WOW
I cant imagine charging $60/case extra but I dont want to lose money either.

What are others charging, more than the cost, or take a loss on the models.
Maybe dont charge for shipping as most of my zircs come from argen anyway so maybe
I wont get dinged every time for shipping.

New Dr dont want to lose him but dont want to get screwed either.

Exactly what every dental lab in Canada should be charging for models! Duh. Or more. But no, it’s a race to the bottom here. And in the US. The multi million, na billion dollar company is showing us the way to make money and no body is paying attention because we’re too nice. (How much!!!!!) no, no, no, we don’t have to charge that much. $30 is fine. O M G.

 

[Markyboy]

Exactly what every dental lab in Canada should be charging for models! Duh. Or more. But no, it’s a race to the bottom here. And in the US. The multi million, na billion dollar company is showing us the way to make money and no body is paying attention because we’re too nice. (How much!!!!!) no, no, no, we don’t have to charge that much. $30 is fine. O M G.

There must be labs taking a loss on the models. I charged full for the models and only saw 3 cases from that Dr. He went back to his old lab. I would have liked the extra work but not willing to take a $60 hit on every case. I heard through the grapevine his complaint with the old lab was that they charged him for some remakes lol cheap bastard.
The real problem is labs not charging for the model and the Dr's who are not willing to pay for the technology. (And maybe the crappy sales people who never mention the cost of the models)

 

[bigj1972]

There must be labs taking a loss on the models. I charged full for the models and only saw 3 cases from that Dr. He went back to his old lab. I would have liked the extra work but not willing to take a $60 hit on every case. I heard through the grapevine his complaint with the old lab was that they charged him for some remakes lol cheap bastard.
The real problem is labs not charging for the model and the Dr's who are not willing to pay for the technology. (And maybe the crappy sales people who never mention the cost of the models)

Like I've said, why work to lose money. The other lab is not winning anything. Better to profit a $100 and go home at lunch than to work all day for $150

 

[rkm rdt]

Charge by the weight of the material. Size matters

 

[mmbh]

If you are outsourcing your printed models it is hard to eat that cost because it is significant. Most Docs will likely question the cost being passed onto them. If you are printing your own models, the time savings of not trimming models and dies, cost of stone and labor, it will most likely come close to evening out if you are very busy. It has for us anyways.

 

[Brett Hansen CDT]

We offer modeless crowns for our scanning doctors. They are $15 less than our monolithic crowns from impressions. If a model is needed, we charge our normal fee. We have a printer so we aren't outsourcing our models.

 

[GG - J]

No Charge unless we do JUST models. Then its $30/case. The model charge is built into the crown fee of $99.

Labor:
Case Entry - $1.50
Model Design - 4.00
Crown Design- 4.00
Nesting/Milling- 3.50
De-Puck/Sinter- 3.50
Finish/S+G - 8.00
Billing - $1.50
Delivery - $3.00
Overhead - $1.25

Materials:
Model Resin- 4.25
ZR Preshaded/ML - 4.00
Finishing - 1.00
S+G - 3.00
Crown Box - .50

Total= $43.00 ( 56.6% Profit)

Know your numbers, your costs and your margins. Then you can make an informed decision on what to charge and where your prices should be.

full work pans do not mean you are a success
you may be busy but are you making $

as pointed out above know your numbers you will run a better more profitable business

 

[GG - J]

I couldn't charge that as a 1 man show and im at +/- 60%, not charging for models, whereas the competition charges 30...
and im definitely not charging 99 a crown.

so, my question would be "where is your competitions pricing at comparatively?" and "how does your quality compare?"
these are more important questions to me than anything



and if all "I" get is $8 fk dollars to contour, stain and glaze a crown...
then I quit.

price comparison is more important to you than profit margin?

your product regardless of what you produce in any industry - its only worth what client is willing to pay

Andrew has a 56% profit margin i would say that he has extremely successful business model

 

[John in Canada]

No Charge unless we do JUST models. Then its $30/case. The model charge is built into the crown fee of $99.

Labor:
Case Entry - $1.50
Model Design - 4.00
Crown Design- 4.00
Nesting/Milling- 3.50
De-Puck/Sinter- 3.50
Finish/S+G - 8.00
Billing - $1.50
Delivery - $3.00
Overhead - $1.25

Materials:
Model Resin- 4.25
ZR Preshaded/ML - 4.00
Finishing - 1.00
S+G - 3.00
Crown Box - .50

Total= $43.00 ( 56.6% Profit)

Know your numbers, your costs and your margins. Then you can make an informed decision on what to charge and where your prices should be.

Thank you for the numbers! Finally someone puts down the brass tacks.
I’m curious to know where you factor in remakes? It’s a real percentage in every lab that should/must be tracked and accounted for. Also, where do you account for insurances, rent or mortgage, cost of delivery vehicle (if you have one),continuing education, association or CDT fees, etc? The price of fuel has sky rocketed - maybe that $3 needs to be reevaluated? How about consumables like diamond discs, burs and finishing stones? Miyo, or Ceramotion? Cost of equipment upgrades, licensing fees?

 

[Flipperlady]

Just a side note to charging for printing 3D models. My fee for poured models went up at the same time as I integrated 3D. Why would I not try to be consistent in my pricing? as the joke goes: "Thirty bucks is thirty bucks."

$35 bucks included in total price 5 or more years ago (analogue model) , guess prices are going down now

 

[bigj1972]

Not to mention the value of the dollar has dropped significantly every year. My sub 100 dollar grocery bill has gone to 120-140 and we buy the same things since last year,

Now how's your grocery bill???