Dark stump

EJADA

EJADA

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I have used a mo inc cut-back and blocked a black prep successfully. A good ol PFM or a captek as Arron stated would all work. A zirconia at .6 or.7 mm would block that also. Hopefully DDS has prepared pt. that this is a challenging case so pt. has realistic expectations also. An LT I do not believe is a good option for this. As stated before too risky.

I usually say a little prayer over cases like this.
 
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EJADA

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Hey Captek Aaron how much do you think it would cost to fabricate a bridge like that using Captek?

Looks like two singles to me. You can get a coping made by Dale Dental for about $75 per unit.
 
Affinity

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DSC_2519.jpg

This is what will happen if you try an LT over a RCT.. Dr didnt give me stump shade, but Im sure it was nowhere near as dark as that black stump you have..
DSC_2519.jpg
 
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paulg100

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cant understand why people are saying to use an LT ingot with this type of case, completely wrong advice! :loco:

MO no either, unless loads of space, i just wouldnt bother.

HO maybe, personally i find em to opaque.

Zirconia - yes, there are many different opacities of zirconia. find one that works well for masking, and find one thats good for all general stuff.

you can use a good light blocking ceramic (maybe mix a mamelon material with a deep dentine, depends on what ceramic your using) in the body area of your first bake. then you can use a less opaque core and not have problems trying to manage the transition. Think intrinsic masking.. my favorite word at the moment :)
 
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paulg100

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View attachment 3048

This is what will happen if you try an LT over a RCT.. Dr didnt give me stump shade, but Im sure it was nowhere near as dark as that black stump you have..

oh and real shame there, looked like a great crown otherwise. sames happened to me in the past, you wont do that again :)
 
disturbed

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View attachment 3048

This is what will happen if you try an LT over a RCT.. Dr didnt give me stump shade, but Im sure it was nowhere near as dark as that black stump you have..

.... gunna call you out on this one..thats not only a stump issue... incisal 1/3... dot dot dot popcorn
 
sidesh0wb0b

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the HO ingots are VERY opaque....even for a core. i use MO ingots for covering dark stumps (and Ti implants) all the time. in fact just finished one Friday. they work beautifully and look great. Zirc is also an option. if you are going to use HO ingots, i say just go with Zirc. if you choose the MO ingots you can do either a core and buildup or a 3/4 core with cutback for facial/incisal buildup only. either way works well. i prefer core with MO and full stacked porc on top.

also, in talking with my buddies at Ivoclar, they are working on a pessed core that you can then wax to, and press on top of it again. works wonders for those of us that arent excellent porcelain stackers but can wax till the cows come home.
 
Affinity

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.... gunna call you out on this one..thats not only a stump issue... incisal 1/3... dot dot dot popcorn

Well Im 'gunna' call you out on the fact that I dont see any of YOUR work in the MOUTH on this site.. see a lot on the model.. What are you trying to prove? that the mamelons are yellow and not white? I used mamelon light.. but who knows what it will look like until you see it in the mouth. I didnt post this case for you to criticize the mamelons, or even say that I thought it was a perfect crown other than the stump, i posted it to help with ingot selection. Go pound your pompous chest somewhere else, or back it up with some real pics. jacka$$
 
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"also, in talking with my buddies at Ivoclar, they are working on a pessed core that you can then wax to, and press on top of it again. works wonders for those of us that arent excellent porcelain stackers but can wax till the cows come home."

this is quite an old technique now. just press a high opacity core as a light blocker then press an LT core and cement over the top.

affinity for what its worth, shape, texture and lustre were all great on that crown. if the value was correct (not greyed out by under lying colour) that would have integrated real nice but im sure you know that anyway.
 
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sidesh0wb0b

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"also, in talking with my buddies at Ivoclar, they are working on a pessed core that you can then wax to, and press on top of it again. works wonders for those of us that arent excellent porcelain stackers but can wax till the cows come home."

this is quite an old technique now. just press a high opacity core as a light blocker then press an LT core and cement over the top.

agreed you can do that....but the thought process was a stronger lithium disilicate core than the pressed cores that are out there nowadays. similar to having a Zirc core and pressing a CZR ingot onto it.
 
Affinity

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Thanks, I think she wouldve been really happy with it, if you saw what she had there before.. wow.. I think I have a pic.. Single centrals are nightmares in themselves, and I beat myself up over these minute details, I dont really need someone else 'calling me out'. If I asked for it, thats one thing, but theres a positive and INTELLIGENT way to critique, and.. 'incisal 1/3, dot dot dot popcorn'
 
Gru

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Too bad the doc didn't block out the dark dentin. Case would've been perfect!
 
actittle

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In talking with my buddies at Ivoclar, they are working on a pessed core that you can then wax to, and press on top of it again.

That sounds interesting, has anyone done this?
 
disturbed

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Well Im 'gunna' call you out on the fact that I dont see any of YOUR work in the MOUTH on this site.. see a lot on the model.. What are you trying to prove? that the mamelons are yellow and not white? I used mamelon light.. but who knows what it will look like until you see it in the mouth. I didnt post this case for you to criticize the mamelons, or even say that I thought it was a perfect crown other than the stump, i posted it to help with ingot selection. Go pound your pompous chest somewhere else, or back it up with some real pics. jacka$$

calm down buddy, just making the obvious er..observation that the crown pic you posted is not waaaay off in shade simply because of a dark stump. and if you wanna see pics of my work in the mouth you should of just asked. gladly provide them, sorry if I stepped on your ego. :)
 
Marcusthegladiator CDT

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Zirc framework, or in this situation, anatomical framework is always the best choice. And we layer VM9 over our zirc. looks great.
 
Affinity

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calm down buddy, just making the obvious er..observation that the crown pic you posted is not waaaay off in shade simply because of a dark stump. and if you wanna see pics of my work in the mouth you should of just asked. gladly provide them, sorry if I stepped on your ego. :)
Not your buddy, and i never said the crown was perfect otherwise, i cant control the fact that the dr seated that crown.. If you reread, the only claim i made is this is what happens with an LT over a dark stump, thats it. While you sit back with your popcorn smiley and pick apart my case, you think im the ego? Step up to the plate champ and lets see some pics. Cant wait.
 
Affinity

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I dont mean to be defensive, but you are offensive.. You are 'disturbed' , I get it! Its your thing.. But most everyone on this forum can criticize while adding their knowledge and experience. You may have some but you add nothing useful to the conversation, so stay out of it.

I could start a thread alone on this case, how it was handled, how the Dr really let the patient down by cementing this case (my first and only case for him) and how you really have to go the extra mile to get all the minor details exactly right on a case like this. I did remake this crown at no charge, in an MO, but sadly I moved to europe before I found out how this case turned out. Ultimately it was on the Dr to try and opaque out the stump because the pt wanted ONLY all ceramic... Maybe I should have used an HO.. Unfortunately ill never know..
So what you consider my "ego" is actually a personal commitment i have with this case, and a personal connection i had with an actual pt. We all want the slick perfect beautiful 1st seat single central, but this is sometimes the reality and how you deal with the pt AND the Dr AND the material is the focus of this thread.. Not my incisal 1/3.
End rant.
 
dmonwaxa

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Affinity, I'm with you on this one, there is a lot of background info missing to be calling it a pos. The shape texture etc is great. The only thing wrong is the low value due to the abutment when seated. I had a case like this recently emax over Ti, I'm seriously considering emax over zr only, in the anterior from now on. The patient wants all ceramic?,,, great, just do it over zr. Less remakes and headaches.
 
Marcusthegladiator CDT

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HUH?? you veneer Zr with Zr?.....ZR is perfect only in full mouth rehab cases, when EVERY tooth is Zr. Even then, its still fuggin ugly.
No, I would build an anotomical framework out of zirconia and layer it with porcelain.
And zirc is perfect for everything, not just full mouth cases.
I think your thinking of full contour zirconia on anteriors, yes that would be fuggly.
Not at all what I would suggest.
The anatomical framework would hide the implants very well.
As far as Zirc framework over a Zirc abutment, why not?
You can place a PFM over a zirc abutment if ya want, but thats just plain silly.
 
Affinity

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Ok so in trying to reel this thread back in to the OP with another real world example. Not as dark a stump as the others, but I dont think an LT would work on this case..

The dreaded dark stump emax single central. This crown was built only from the picture and a 'spare' veneer on #10 previously done by another lab. Shade was around A1-A2. Never saw the patient, first seat cement. Sometimes you get lucky. Yes its slightly short, erupted opposing bite dictated length.

Layered MO1.
DarkstumpcentralB4.jpg
darkstumpcentralafter.jpg
DarkstumpcentralB4.jpg darkstumpcentralafter.jpg
 

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