COVID-19 RESTRICTION AND LOCKDOWNS- HOW YOU COPING??

[Affinity]

The countless numbers of scientist that have spent countless hours working around the clock to work on a vaccine for a global pandemic that came out of nowhere. These people helped us regain a semblance of normalcy, and anti maskers, anti vaxxers and those that spread false information from irreputable sources do nothing but hold everything back.

Name these iconic heroes then, so we can celebrate them!

 

[HonestAbe]

I’ll go ahead share my fears about your military point.
if you never heard about the list of the types of citizens that would be found on the governments domestic terrorist list you can go read what they have written up on the government web site. Many items are regarding people that want limited government, fear of a growing government overreach, racist groups-specifically white supremacists, violent environmentalists and so on. Consider the fact that school teachers, university professors, celebrities, BLM, MSM, politicians, pro athletes, “influencers,” major businesses, pro sports leagues, and on and on call all white people naturally born racists and that they demand socialist/marxist principals be implemented by businesses and government and education. Add to that, the sheer hatred and open violent remarks and “entertainment” style acts of murder towards trump, who is a white supremacist as are anyone who supports him, by celebrities, politicians, news anchors and on and on. The people being forced out of the military are the people who most likely strongly believe in the freedoms of this country. Thus, leaving a more socialist/marxist accepting military.
so combine that remaining military with the government terrorist watch list, an overwhelming majority of what you see on tv and social media, a president singling out one specific group of Americans and sharing that the other group of Americans and he have little patience left for them, and sprinkle in a bit of world history and that’s how you get me, someone who’s been told he was born a natural racist and who believes in a limited government and the constitution and bill of rights and Declaration of Independence as articles that acknowledge freedom for all men equally. I’m actually a good fit for a domestic terrorist apparently. I hope that the threats of being treated like a, well a 1930’s German Jew, with travel restricted and where I can work restricted and where and when I can shop…I hope that’s just a few rogue big people with loud voices saying that crap and not a majority of Americans.
you say you have to remove the middle man of where you get your information. I have to ask, where do you hear that 99% of all hospitalizations are the non vaccinated? I try to do the same as you and our numbers are vastly different.

I'm reading through this and want to make sure I understand some stuff. With the question of why the military is requiring active duty personnel to get vaccinated I only see a few possibilities (please add more if I'm missing them).

1. They believe that the vaccine is safe and effective, and this is the best thing to do to maintain readiness.
2. They believe that the vaccine isn't safe and/or effective, but they're taking this action for political reasons (this is what I got out of your breakdown but I could be wrong).

 

[Affinity]

Nice dualistic logic there. It can only be one of those two choices huh? Remember agent orange?

3. Maybe nobody in power cares if they lose some military personel, war is fought on a computer now.

 

[RileyS]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to ignore the point you made. I'm multi-tasking while I wait for the computer. I believe people should be able to do whatever they want if it's not harming other people. I think mandates are not ideal, but we're in a situation where they are the right thing to do to minimize the amount of people that get sick and die needlessly.

g's a good example. If you wanna smoke, fine, but if you're making wait staff in the restaurants get cancer even when they're non-smokers, then yeah you should lose the freedom to smoke inside.

Cigarettes - obviously hurting both parties. Protecting the non smoker by not forcing them to take something into their body.
Covid - can kill some people .2-.5 of those infected unless you're fat, old, or have 2+ other illnesses of which 94-97% will survive the virus Those 99% that live have antibodies proven to be 7 times stronger than vaccine.
Vaccine - only diminishes symptoms when the virus is contracted and you're still passing the virus. Can cause minor and major side effects, therefore some people see it as a risk to themselves and don't want it forced on them and would rather roll the dice on the 99% chance of beating the virus.
So vaccines are opposite of smoking. It's being forced into your body

 

[HonestAbe]

Nice dualistic logic there. It can only be one of those two choices huh? Remember agent orange?

3. Maybe nobody in power cares if they lose some military personel, war is fought on a computer now.

How in the world did you get that from what I said? I specifically said I only see a few possibilities and to add more if you thought of them, which you have. The one you added I don't really understand, but I never said there's only two possibilities.

 

[Affinity]

Im saying its not either - or, its multi-faceted. Its political, its deceptively strategic, its wreckless, it may also be beneficial. Above all, it shows everyone who is in charge.

 

[HonestAbe]

Cigarettes - obviously hurting both parties. Protecting the non smoker by not forcing them to take something into their body.
Covid - can kill some people .2-.5 of those infected unless you're fat, old, or have 2+ other illnesses of which 94-97% will survive the virus Those 99% that live have antibodies proven to be 7 times stronger than vaccine.
Vaccine - only diminishes symptoms when the virus is contracted and you're still passing the virus. Can cause minor and major side effects, therefore some people see it as a risk to themselves and don't want it forced on them and would rather roll the dice on the 99% chance of beating the virus.
So vaccines are opposite of smoking. It's being forced into your body

So you don't believe the CDC that the vaccine lowers the risk that you'll contract the virus?

I think I can see where you're going with your latter point. If you're like me, and believes that the CDC is credible and that the vaccine not only diminishes symptoms but also reduces the chance that you'll get and spread the virus, then I hope you can understand why I think it is protecting other people to get vaccinated.

I'm not sure how it works in the military, but I imagine those people that are active duty could indeed refuse the vaccine but would then be held accountable by the military's court system? They're definitely not being physically forced to get it, but I can see a legitimate argument than they're being hugely pressured (as are everyone else like medical providers and other federal/state employees and people in large businesses over 100 or whatever). I acknowledge and agree that while it wouldn't be holding them down and jamming a needle in their arm, it's putting people in a very difficult position if their jobs are at risk, forcing them to choose to compromise what they believe or be penalized.

 

[Affinity]

Why is there 300% more cases than this time last year after at least half the population is 'protected'?

Honest question for honestabe, who do you think funds the CDC and NIH? Who has no branch in our elected government but is able to limit interstate travel and quarantine?

One last question then im really done. How long does cancer take to metastasize? How can you know if a new emergency product causes cancer in 6 months? 1 year? or years later like roundup? Will an apology suffice because there will of course be no compensation?

 

[Al.]

Gladys
View attachment 39347

Yes Gladys.
wife and I have been watching reruns of bewitched.

 

[Al.]

Science is the new religion for many and Scientists are the gods.

 

[Affinity]

Doing a great job of "controlling disease''

Could post more, but this is whats known as a fail.

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to ignore the point you made. I'm multi-tasking while I wait for the computer. I believe people should be able to do whatever they want if it's not harming other people. I think mandates are not ideal, but we're in a situation where they are the right thing to do to minimize the amount of people that get sick and die needlessly.

g's a good example. If you wanna smoke, fine, but if you're making wait staff in the restaurants get cancer even when they're non-smokers, then yeah you should lose the freedom to smoke inside.

or its a personal choice if youd like to frequent that establishment. we all know the side effects of 2nd hand smoke. so why go subject yourself to it? i personally do not smoke and detest the smell....that goes for employees too. no one is forcing them to work there. NOR SHOULD THEY!!!!
so when smoking was allowed inside i didnt go to those places. personal responsibility is a lost art in this spoiled rotten country. its not the governments job to take care of us.
any infringement upon rights is a step closer to losing them completely. just because today your (not you specifically, just the general 'your') guy is in charge and making the mandates you like doesnt mean tomorrow it wont be someone you dont like.
dont believe me? when was the last time government got smaller?

 

[HonestAbe]

Im saying its not either - or, its multi-faceted. Its political, its deceptively strategic, its wreckless, it may also be beneficial. Above all, it shows everyone who is in charge.

The more I think about it, the more I find this reply kinda hard to wrap my head around. Yeah it could be all of those things and more, but I'm trying to pinpoint if people think the US Military:

1. Doesn't know if the vaccine is safe but they're mandating it anyway
2. Is pretty sure that it is so they're mandating it
3. Is pretty sure that it isn't safe but they're mandating it anyway

Why is there 300% more cases than this time last year after at least half the population is 'protected'?

Honest question for honestabe, who do you think funds the CDC and NIH? Who has no branch in our elected government but is able to limit interstate travel and quarantine?

One last question then im really done. How long does cancer take to metastasize? How can you know if a new emergency product causes cancer in 6 months? 1 year? or years later like roundup? Will an apology suffice because there will of course be no compensation?

Probably because we're all less quarantined than we were, and there's a variant that spreads easier. There's still a significant portion of population that's unvaccinated and the variant is ravaging that group a lot harder than the vaccinated.

The CDC is part of the government, so tax dollars and federal income. The CDC Foundation is a public charity that takes donations but that makes up a small % of the CDC's budget. Did they limit interstate travel? I thought they just made recommendations and some states restricted non-essential travel? Isn't it the State's right to do so?

Cancer is a very broad term that encompasses a huge amount of varieties. Yeah it's totally possible the vaccine could be a huge mistake that really messes up a ton of people. The tech behind it isn't as new as you're framing it though, it's been studied for decades. But yeah you're right, it's a calculated risk. If they're wrong it could severely undermine confidence in vaccines forever more. They're really really sure that it won't, but you're right they could be wrong, and there's definitely a chance it could all go horribly wrong. I'll take the vegas odds on this one.

or its a personal choice if youd like to frequent that establishment. we all know the side effects of 2nd hand smoke. so why go subject yourself to it? i personally do not smoke and detest the smell....that goes for employees too. no one is forcing them to work there. NOR SHOULD THEY!!!!
so when smoking was allowed inside i didnt go to those places. personal responsibility is a lost art in this spoiled rotten country. its not the governments job to take care of us.
any infringement upon rights is a step closer to losing them completely. just because today your (not you specifically, just the general 'your') guy is in charge and making the mandates you like doesnt mean tomorrow it wont be someone you dont like.
dont believe me? when was the last time government got smaller?

In my view, the non-smoker that's desperate to put food on the table is forced to stay in the unsafe environment and ingest smoke until the rules made it safer for them. The customer with the cigarette was bringing something dangerous into the establishment and it was deemed a public health risk so action was taken. In the same way that someone refusing to wear a mask and potentially carrying an easily spreadable and dangerous virus is asked to wear the mask or get out of the store, to protect public health.

So like in my state when the vaccine mandate goes into effect, some people are going to quit their jobs and move, they're free to do that. Like you said in your example, no one is forcing them to work there, so they should leave if they don't like it right?

Is it not a right for me to be safe and healthy? If your choices increase my risk considerably, is your right to be absolutely free more important than my right to be safe and healthy? If you pull up to a gas station and there's a dude smoking a cig at the pump and you tell the manager and he says "hey man.. it might be dangerous.. but it's a free country so we don't wanna infringe on his rights to do whatever he wants..." you might not like that right?

 

[Affinity]

This is why we have apple maggot quarantine signs when you get to the idaho border. Not that anyone here calls people from washington that..

Try to follow me here. Say the military Drs treat soldiers for a very common job hazard, ptsd. Say their recommendation from the higher up enlightened CDC is to give them heroin. Its a micro dose, little to no side effects. It works wonders. It starts working for everyone, and becomes the new normal. That scenario wouldnt exactly happen, because heroin sounds scary, so instead they put it in pill form that starts with oxy because oxygen is good. Now its easy and convenient to take. The only problem is, the chart I posted above. More people dying of opiate overdoses. More people get them, more people die. Now correlate that with mandating everyone take a daily opiate booster, no thats crazy. Why CDC do nothing make graph go down?
The military are the most loyal statists there are, so its an easy starting point (or maybe not),next being people on the left coast.

 

[HonestAbe]

This is why we have apple maggot quarantine signs when you get to the idaho border. Not that anyone here calls people from washington that..

Try to follow me here. Say the military Drs treat soldiers for a very common job hazard, ptsd. Say their recommendation from the higher up enlightened CDC is to give them heroin. Its a micro dose, little to no side effects. It works wonders. It starts working for everyone, and becomes the new normal. That scenario wouldnt exactly happen, because heroin sounds scary, so instead they put it in pill form that starts with oxy because oxygen is good. Now its easy and convenient to take. The only problem is, the chart I posted above. More people dying of opiate overdoses. More people get them, more people die. Now correlate that with mandating everyone take a daily opiate booster, no thats crazy. Why CDC do nothing make graph go down?
The military are the most loyal statists there are, so its an easy starting point (or maybe not),next being people on the left coast.

I don't think the CDC commands the military what to do, they do make recommendations though. I agree that the big pharma is terrifying and needs to be held accountable for the opiate crisis (yes I can hold this view and still believe their vaccine is effective, sometimes profit motives align with the best interests of public health, same with the insurance companies in this situation).

I'm having a hard time relating your example to the vaccine though, since the vaccine is not addictive. As to the charts, the CDC doesn't have the authority to say, stop people from having sex to lower the number of STDS transmitted. They could make suggestions though like to use protection. I'd be interested to see all those charts when compared to population too. If population goes up, you'd expect the total cases to be higher too wouldn't you? Do you think the CDC wants more people to get sick?

I completely agree with you that the government is capable of, and has made small incremental changes to a variety of things to shift what's considered normal, to the detriment of everyone.

 

[Affinity]

Im saying they are ineffective at doing their job, so maybe dont put all your eggs in that basket. Im saying, companies like google, microsoft, bill gates found., pfizer, merck.. they are effectively shareholders in what CDC policy looks like. You can say thats not the case, but thats just covering for them. These companies have an agenda and this is how they lobby it. Do they make good products, probably. Do they all have side effects associated with them? Of course. Do they promote a healthy lifestyle or better living through pharmaceuticals? Censoring anything that might help someone if it isnt in line. Then its easy to put a 'theory' label on it. Bottom line, if they get billions of dollars of our money and from the companies we consume of, then why is the US the least healthy on the earth? Maybe they cant change whether people get sick or stds because human nature, superceeds government mandate.

 

[Gru]

View attachment 39349

The more I think about it, the more I find this reply kinda hard to wrap my head around. Yeah it could be all of those things and more, but I'm trying to pinpoint if people think the US Military:

1. Doesn't know if the vaccine is safe but they're mandating it anyway
2. Is pretty sure that it is so they're mandating it
3. Is pretty sure that it isn't safe but they're mandating it anyway
....

Or maybe:

4. Orders come from the top and are expected to be followed.

As a close friend and relatively high ranking fighter pilot friend said in response to his mother's political question: "my opinion is irrelevant. I have my orders. As long as those orders aren't illegal, unethical or violate the Constitution, I follow my orders."

 

[Flipperlady]

Whats the main difference between DDT, roundup, Vioxx (or the other 4400 approved products FDA recalled in a year) and anything labeled as a vaccine?




..the liability of the manufacturer. Its federal law. Very few people can pull the plug on something like this, the FDA board members are the former drug peddlers, and even they are jumping ship.
Its not that anyone is intentionally doing harm by omitting certain truth, its that they dont even care or stand to be held accountable. Public citizens cannot form a civil lawsuit even if there are 1000s of victims. (which there are)

"oops, it turns out that tiny change to your DNA will make you infertile or feel like acid is running through your veins, if you notice these symptoms, please consult a Dr"
Dr. Bottomofhisclass says 'This sudden onset of twitching, headaches, microscopic blood clots, paralysis, heart problems... this couldnt possibly be due to the safe and effective shot you had last month. Let me run some more tests'
If you remove the middlemen, youll see a lot of videos like this floating around. So wheres the conspiracy, the sick people?

I read that it's RNA that dies off and disappears. The vaccine gave me pause as of course if things start changing then you may have a cancer risk, in the back of my mind this is my biggest concern. That said I would feel a whole lot worse if I would have given covid to my mother who is very high risk even with 2 shots and who wants to keep living in a pandemic? If you are over 50 you probably should get the shot to be honest, but I'm not going to judge.

 

[HonestAbe]

Or maybe:

4. Orders come from the top and are expected to be followed.

As a close friend and relatively high ranking fighter pilot friend said in response to his mother's political question: "my opinion is irrelevant. I have my orders. As long as those orders aren't illegal, unethical or violate the Constitution, I follow my orders."

For sure, that makes sense. Even if the top brass said they made the choice and weren't ordered by the commander in chief, anti-vax people would just say they were probably lying. No way to know for sure one way or the other I guess. I suppose we'll see how many active duty refuse the vaccine if they really consider it illegal, unethical, or violating their oath to the constitution. I don't think it will be very many, and to be clear, I'm not saying that proves either side right or wrong, just my guess on what will happen.

The interesting debate to me right now is boosters vs no boosters (FDA and other agencies reviewing choices right now). There's plenty of countries that can't make or afford the vaccine that desperately want it, and we're shipping it out, so there's a legit argument to be made that getting unvaccinated people the shot is more effective than boosting existing people. It lowers the chances of new variants springing up in unvaccinated populations. But at the same time, we seem to have a surplus because of vaccine hesitancy. I don't see why we can't have both. I got my second shot in early March so the efficacy is apparently still good, but waning.

 

[Affinity]

But yeah you're right, it's a calculated risk. If they're wrong it could severely undermine confidence in vaccines forever more. They're really really sure that it won't, but you're right they could be wrong, and there's definitely a chance it could all go horribly wrong. I'll take the vegas odds on this one.

'Theyre really really sure it wont'
The thing is, you can roll the dice all you want, but you get to play with your money, you cant expect everyone else to sell their house to throw in on your gamble. Let me give you some health advice im really really sure will help you and see if you take it? And if you dont, you lose your job ok?