CloudPoint vs. 3Shape

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RJS8669

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So...

Bought a CloudPoint system about a month ago.

Here's a few thoughts -

Scanning speed is half that of 3Shape (D700). Just scanned the same case - single on quadrant models (ArtiMax). Cloudpoint scan took 2:11. 3Shape took 5:24.

We have the additional Articulator jig which allows you to scan bigger case while they are mounted, so that's a plus as this eliminates the need for scan bite.

CP Scan files can be imported into 3Shape and I don't see any discernible difference in the screen views during designing or in what we get off the mill.

CloudPoint Design software is a bit of a disappointment. Graphics are are decidely "old-school" - almost like you're taking a trip back in time and are playing Pong on your old Odyssey/TV.

Only one anatomy library (Bruxzir) which I'm not terribly fond of.

Occlusal anatomy is overly deep and pronounced - the funny thing about this is that it doesn't necessarily look like a bad design on the screen, but when its milled its just different. Same thing with the proximal contacts.

Given the speed of the thing, I think we will just end up using it as a scanner and importing the files into 3Shape for design. Glidewell has hinted at an update in the next few months, so maybe the design software will get better....
 
MAFCDL

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Do you mind me asking what the total cost ended up being for the cloudpoint system? Any surprises in that area?
 
CadCamAL

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So...

Bought a CloudPoint system about a month ago.

Here's a few thoughts -

Scanning speed is half that of 3Shape (D700). Just scanned the same case - single on quadrant models (ArtiMax). Cloudpoint scan took 2:11. 3Shape took 5:24.

We have the additional Articulator jig which allows you to scan bigger case while they are mounted, so that's a plus as this eliminates the need for scan bite.

CP Scan files can be imported into 3Shape and I don't see any discernible difference in the screen views during designing or in what we get off the mill.

CloudPoint Design software is a bit of a disappointment. Graphics are are decidely "old-school" - almost like you're taking a trip back in time and are playing Pong on your old Odyssey/TV.

Only one anatomy library (Bruxzir) which I'm not terribly fond of.

Occlusal anatomy is overly deep and pronounced - the funny thing about this is that it doesn't necessarily look like a bad design on the screen, but when its milled its just different. Same thing with the proximal contacts.

Given the speed of the thing, I think we will just end up using it as a scanner and importing the files into 3Shape for design. Glidewell has hinted at an update in the next few months, so maybe the design software will get better....


Sounds about what our CloudPoint peeps are saying. Love the scanning, but design portion could be improved. Seeing how this is the 1st phase, I have a feeling it will just get better.

The problem I have with the .stl importing into 3shape, is the time it takes to create the order form and then import the files. If anything is wrong with the scans, you have to start over. That kills the part advantage of importing into 3shape for me.

Plus side is when I was at Glidewell a little bit ago, the software guys were really cool and wanted all the feedback possible, so they could design the software to work better for us. That's something you don't get everyday. Razi from GL has been checking in regularly and getting good info to help with development.

Can't wait to see what's next!
 
LA Ceramics

LA Ceramics

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Sounds about what our CloudPoint peeps are saying. Love the scanning, but design portion could be improved. Seeing how this is the 1st phase, I have a feeling it will just get better.

The problem I have with the .stl importing into 3shape, is the time it takes to create the order form and then import the files. If anything is wrong with the scans, you have to start over. That kills the part advantage of importing into 3shape for me.

Plus side is when I was at Glidewell a little bit ago, the software guys were really cool and wanted all the feedback possible, so they could design the software to work better for us. That's something you don't get everyday. Razi from GL has been checking in regularly and getting good info to help with development.

Can't wait to see what's next!


So,....you like doing Jim's R and D work for free and you see this as a "plus side" you say?,....OK,...that's pretty cool I guess. Keep us updated now and again on the progress you and Razi are making with all the improvements and such. Sounds like another real cool deal from our good friends at GL.

F me runnin'!
 
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RJS8669

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Do you mind me asking what the total cost ended up being for the cloudpoint system? Any surprises in that area?


A little over $11k plus $200/mo. What was quoted.

@LA - I get your point, but I don't think JG needs outside help to develop this system. There must be close to 200 designers working there daily - enough for ample feedback on what works and doesn't. I mainly bought it as an inexpensive, easy way for me to work from home. Hopefully, the coming upgrades will make that possible...
 
Ken Knapp

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A little over $11k plus $200/mo. What was quoted.

@LA - I get your point, but I don't think JG needs outside help to develop this system. There must be close to 200 designers working there daily - enough for ample feedback on what works and doesn't. I mainly bought it as an inexpensive, easy way for me to work from home. Hopefully, the coming upgrades will make that possible...

Why didn't you purchase a Medit scanner or XXX for ~$15K. The Cloudpoint cost with license fees within three years will be $18,200...

Is the Cloudpoint limited to scanning Model/Die? Can the system scan a metal partial framework or other dental appliances?

How does the scanner handle a full arch?

Ken
 
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RJS8669

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Why didn't you purchase a Medit scanner or XXX for ~$15K. The Cloudpoint cost with license fees within three years will be $18,200...

Is the Cloudpoint limited to scanning Model/Die? Can the system scan a metal partial framework or other dental appliances?

How does the scanner handle a full arch?

Ken
1. Does the Medit scanner costs include design software?

2. I've never scanned a RPD. Not sure why I would want to...

3. Full Arches can be scanned using the Articulator jig and it does a nice job and very fast compared to the D700...
 
Ken Knapp

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1. Does the Medit scanner costs include design software?

2. I've never scanned a RPD. Not sure why I would want to...

3. Full Arches can be scanned using the Articulator jig and it does a nice job and very fast compared to the D700...

Medit Blue + ExoCAD for ~$18K on ebay.

I often scan RPD framework to overlay on model scans for designing RPD rest and clasp clearance, works great.

How important is the scan time to the average small lab owner, $cost/performance , 2 min/scan vs 10 min/scan, $18,000 vs $10000.

Cloudpoint really costs you $18,599 within three year licenses. Your tethered to the internet and if you turn off the license the scanner is useless?

Ken
 
gdallc

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Medit Blue + ExoCAD for ~$18K on ebay.

I often scan RPD framework to overlay on model scans for designing RPD rest and clasp clearance, works great.

How important is the scan time to the average small lab owner, $cost/performance , 2 min/scan vs 10 min/scan, $18,000 vs $10000.

Cloudpoint really costs you $18,599 within three year licenses. Your tethered to the internet and if you turn off the license the scanner is useless?

Ken

That is my reason for using exocad. We all pay in the end but at least I actually own my scanner and can choose when or if to upgrade. With 3shape, Cloudpoint and so on you are paying $10,000 plus for the privilege of basically using/leasing plus more $ each month/year. Don't pay and you have a paper weight.
 
CadCamAL

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So,....you like doing Jim's R and D work for free and you see this as a "plus side" you say?,....OK,...that's pretty cool I guess. Keep us updated now and again on the progress you and Razi are making with all the improvements and such. Sounds like another real cool deal from our good friends at GL.

F me runnin'!

Ha Ha, yes! I think everyone that is using the system at this time is helping with R&D. This is how I see it. Glidewell has been feeding 3shape developers for years, so when they got tired of waiting on changes to take affect, they came up with CloudPoint. They put the system out there as a beginner system to do single units and small bridges, which it does. That was very clear at the training and they informed everyone of the update schedule that would allow for more complex cases to be done. There are a few kinks, but all systems have those. The part I really like about it, is that they are all for listening to user feedback and molding the software to work with "real" lab work. Would it have been smarter to develop more and come out later on, maybe so.

If we were using this for full production right now, it would be a bust. It does need some work, but I think it'll get there in time. The scanning is pretty much there and it's super fast. They just need to work on the design software and it'll be all good.
 
LA Ceramics

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I'm speechless. I'm gonna leave this one alone. You have fun Al.You must be a young man,...I am to old and intolerant for that sort of stuff
 
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I kind of agree, that we are all just R&D for companies like 3shape. Their end goal is to eliminate the need for a dental technician. The single crowns and 3 unit bridges are already a dying breed. The writing is on the wall for those types of cases.

There has never been a more important time to specialize in the unique/complex cases.
 
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I'm speechless to, but I have a loud mouth...
The end goal of GW is to work for every doctor in the country with cheap prices, sell as much BruxZir disks, Obsidian blocks, and now less expensive scanners to labs until they run as many labs out of business as they can.
If labs still don't see the handwriting on the wall.....:rolleyes: just keep funding GW until you take your head out of the sand and see the light. :)
Anyone know what % of GW's work from doctors is coming from scan files/model & model free restorations ? I'm sure this is a fast growing market for GW with the increase of doctors buying scanners and not wanting to mill inhouse.
 
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