Choosing a Scanner

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Rickrag

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Hi guys,

I'm in the market for a scanner for single unit crowns and copings but also bars and other larger types of restorations. I intend to mill zirconia, titanium and chrome and other ceramics (E.max)on a commercial scale. Currently, I have narrowed the milling choices to the Datron and others in that class. As far as scanners are concerned, I've read many posts and talked to quite a few people, but without actually buying several or somehow getting a room full of scanners to compare side by side it's been rather frustrating trying to sort through all of the opinions and get to the actual factual results. Any input here would be greatly appreciated, especially from those of you that have had the opportunity to use more than one (preferably several or more) of the more accurate scanners.

Here's what I've learned so far. Many people think very highly of the Imetric D105a because from what I understand it has a proprietary scanning method with the scan bodies or something I'm not quite sure about that makes it superior for scanning and making implant supported bars. I have also been told that the support and/or customer service from Imetric can be somewhat difficult but I don't know personally. Supposedly the Imetric has 5-8 micron accuracy across the arch and is considered the best one to use for bars. The Steinbichler is another scanner that has been suggested as being one of the most accurate as well (5-6 micron accuracy),to the extent that they have even devised a method to verify its accuracy even though the measuring standard is their own and doesn't conform to any international standard, not that that makes any difference either. Some individuals who have access to many of the scanners available for evaluation of their CAD software compatibility have espoused the two mentioned above as being among the best scanners they have encountered depending on what one wants to do. Another scanner (according to them) worth consideration is made by Breukmann a German company, however no one in these forums has mentioned it to my knowledge. My understanding (and please correct me if I'm wrong) is that Breukmann was in the industrial scanner business for many years and branched out into the OEM business having made scanners for Kavo and possibly Amman Girrbach in the past and maybe others. The meshes I have seen from that scanner appear to be very crisp and very detailed of those I've seen so far but what you see on the computer monitor may not be indicative of accuracy. I am aware of a scanner and milling system sold by Zubler but don't know anything about its accuracy or suitability for what I want to do. According to Zubler, the scanner is unavailable until November or so. I don't know much about Smart Optics either but they make quite a few scanners dedicated to the dental industry, 5 or 6 as I recall but no one has mentioned them as a standout among scanners. I'm told that they make the scanners for Zirkonzahn but Zirkonzahn denies this.

Additionally, not having owned a bench top scanner in the past I'm unfamiliar with the other attributes that one should look for like scanning jigs and accessories, a large enough scanning bay for full sized articulators, etc. I just don't have enough experience to be able to feel comfortable with such an expensive purchase without more input from experienced techs as are in this forum. Any help or insight would be appreciated.

By the way, I realize that many of the participants in this forum are also resellers of scanners and software. Your comments and input are welcome and are greatly appreciated however I would ask that you please acknowledge your position should you decide to respond so any conflicts of interest are fully disclosed and comments evaluated accordingly. i would also ask that those who respond confine their suggestion to white light (or in the case of the Medit, blue light) non-laser systems that are supplied with Exocad CAD software, ie. no Dental Wings, 3-Shape or other proprietary or closed systems.


I welcome the opportunity to hear from all of you and I thank you in advance.

Rick
 
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zero_zero

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Not a reseller myself... own a 3sh@pe. Not to talk my current scanner down or anything, but for my next scanner investment I will look for something running on Exo or industrial...based on the current setups business model...:thumbdown:

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk 2
 
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Drizzt

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Stay AWAY from Dental Wings . Worst CAD software ever . You're in the right track with Steinbichler and Imetric . You csn't go wrong with those scanners .
 
Labwa

Labwa

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If I were to start getting into milling bars I would get a regular blue light/white light/ laser scanner and also a Renishaw touch probe scanner for scan markers.
And 5 microns...I'm not so sure that's realistic with an optical scanner right now. 10 microns is amazing to achieve.
Good luck and keep us posted on how you go.
 
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Rickrag

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If there was a "Top Ten attributes for the perfect dental scanner" list, what would it contain? I'm thinking things like high resolution/accuracy <6-8 microns, scan adapters for popular semi-adjustable articulators, large scan volume for full sized articulators, speed, multi-die capability, cost < $30K, open file format(s),no or low update fees for integrated software, ability to design/fabricate virtually any type of dental ceramic or metal restoration, robust construction, locally and repeatably calibrated, and things like this. What have I left out?? Does such a scanner exist??
 
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charles007

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Check Zubler's scanner and mill as a starting point..
iMetric is very very accurate ! I bought one of the first units, D102 from the first reseller and sent back, didn't like the Cad program. A new reseller now sells the iMetric with Exocad as you already know,,, and I wish mine had Exocad back then !
I now have the Medit SE scanner, it gets the job done, but its not in the same league as a Zubler, iMetric, Steinbichler, or 3shape d900.. If your in the market for a Datron mill , that price level, and want the best scanner, I would not rule out the 3shape D900 scanner.. Yearly fees on this scanner are peanuts to what your trying to do for your business..
fyi.... my fits were better off the iMetric scanner than my Medit and a 3shapes D700 scanned for me, with frames milled off the same imes-icore mill.
 
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alphadental

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Check Zubler's scanner and mill as a starting point..
iMetric is very very accurate ! I bought one of the first units, D102 from the first reseller and sent back, didn't like the Cad program. A new reseller now sells the iMetric with Exocad as you already know,,, and I wish mine had Exocad back then !
I now have the Medit SE scanner, it gets the job done, but its not in the same league as a Zubler, iMetric, Steinbichler, or 3shape d900.. If your in the market for a Datron mill , that price level, and want the best scanner, I would not rule out the 3shape D900 scanner.. Yearly fees on this scanner are peanuts to what your trying to do for your business..
fyi.... my fits were better off the iMetric scanner than my Medit and a 3shapes D700 scanned for me, with frames milled off the same imes-icore mill.
Charles , do you know who sell iMetric and Steinbichler in US?
 
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charles007

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Datron is a reseller of iMetric now.

Steinblichler ? maybe Scott at *** ... shoot Scott a PM
 
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supwrman

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New Medit scanner uses blue lights.
White lights and blue lights are different
White lights combines many colors light, but Blue lights is just one light.
So white lights is unsuited for open and wide scanner (not blocked)
Because other lights (Incandescent and fluorescent) interfere with scanning.
In other while Incandescent and fluorescent do not have blue light or they have little it.
In addition, blue scanner has special device that can read only blue light.
So other lights do not interfere with scanning.
As a result scan data has less noises and don't have to smoothing.
Smoothing is the way that noise is removed.
But it cause dull margin and edge of preparation tooth.
Laser scanner need do more smoothing than white lights type.
Because laser scanner obtains one point among width of laser.
It is very difficult to get little noise data.
Scan datas of most laser scanner have so a lot of noise that they need more smoothing.
Scan datas of most laser scanner looks clean because they do many smoothing.
But margin data is not sharp.
Blue scanner do not have noise so that it don’t have to do smoothig.
Scan data of blue scanner is sharp.
If you scan inlay cases, you know I mean that I said.
 
DMC

DMC

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Blue is shorter wavelegnth.

This is the only benifit.

The light travels back in wave form. Somewhere between the crest and trough of the wave is the data you need.

The tighter/shorter the wave....the more accurate.

Blue light exists in White light. A Camera can narrow down to only the Blue.

Blue LED projectors are cheaper than full spectrum.

Manufactures save $$ by using only Blue LED Projectors.



Scott
 
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charles007

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I remember Medit telling me they changed the positioning of the camera's of the Blue scanner ..
Is that true ? that was months ago, and will that help Scott ?
Medit also said the main advantage on the blue scanner is for bars.. Another tech that actually got to see this beta scanner scanner said it was noticeable faster than the SE..May be there still making improvements on this new scanner ?
 
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NicelyMKV

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Seems to me like these white light scanners should be damn near instant for each position scan by now....
 
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supwrman

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New medit scanner's main adventage is sharpness of scan data.
And they try to scan faster than the SE. It depands on S/W.
H/W can scan faster than the SE.

New medit scanners have full spectrum LED projectoer.
But scanners use only blue light.

Blue is shorter wavelegnth.
So blue reflect surface very well. do not penetrate into the surface.
blue scanner can read the exact surface, little shiny surface, little translucent surface, colored surface without noise.
 
DMC

DMC

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I can access my SE Series projector and turn down the Red and Green LEDs all the way, just like any modern TV or projector.

Then, it too would be a Blue scanner. Takes 0.2 seconds. I really don't think the difference will be all that much.

Cameras are the same Point Grey Research units. I really do not see much of anything all that different between the Two units at this point.

Just the Chassis looks different. Big deal...
 
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edwarddental

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The main difference with the Medit blue- you will be able fit full size artic.
 
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cadfan

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they all tell you things about accuracy but it refers to what ??? sometimes on a small ball maybe 10 mm diameter somtimes on a single messurment and somtimes on a complete modell.This is only one part of the show the next is the repeatebility and the third what you whant to do. Crown and Bridges the repetability of the hole modell implants the repeatability off the modell and the precison off the scanmarkers.The imetric special precision is part of the speciall implansoftware which is much cheaper and able to put each foto (measurement) more accurate together than in the standard procedure.its a more special part of the photogrammetrie also used in the normal software but faster.the micron depend on the surface 5 my by a ball 10mm diameter is normal for a steinbichler ,medit,or imetric.a hole model by imetric repetebility same time same temperature under 15 my medit 3-5 micron more steinbichler maybe the same but for bridges its not so important more the engine camsoftware and adaptions.for screw retained bars or bridges its a question of time an money if you dont make more then 10 a year send the model to a specialised lab let they scan they can sent you the stl and you do the modellation if you want , the scanrisk belong to them.
 
DMC

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I had it, I cannot say that I recommend it.

That's all I got to say about that.



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