Cheap Dentures?

[MRLABTECH]

I am in Washington State and I am a licensed Denturist. I was trained in the Art of making dentures properly. I type the words Heat Cured Dentures vs Cold Cured Dentures on Google and WOW, just look at how many complaints you get for cold cured dentures. I was taught to use the correct acrylic for the correct application. But it seems there are some folks who are using cold cured acrylics to make dentures. I've never heard of this until now. I have seen some of these cold cured dentures and wow, the difference between heat cured vs cold cured is striking. Cold cured dentures look cheap and the quality looks horrible. Has anyone else run into this?

 

[AJEL]

Is it cold cured or improperly cured material. Some of what you may be looking at might be someone trying to mix heat cured powder with a self curing liquid. Pour resin is quite common in Europe, and when processed properly you cannot see the difference, in many cases the material is more stable. There are pour resin in the USA that are quite good, but not cheap, there are pour resin in the world that you buy by the drum (who knows what the filler is) and you get what you pay for.
If what you are seeing is yellowing or browning some of that could also be bad batches of Flasked heat cure. Out of date processed Luci199 will give some fast aging in the mouth, turning orange then brown. There is also some material that was marketed for microwave that was not formulated for the process & you might be seeing that as well, lots of porosity, internal boiling, improper cure soft spots, brown burn marks especially around porclean anterior where the pins are. A properly formulated PMMA with microwave is quite good, but you need to follow what the chemist designed the material for.
So are you sure you are seeing a self curing (which even your heat cure is, in the USA with the use of N,N-Dimethyl-4-methylaniline to insure curing is a form of self polymerization) or maybe just sloppy processing or improper or expired material usage.
Remember what you read in the internet often has no verification, people often guess without knowing, but that often does not stop them from posting.

I was taught to use the correct acrylic for the correct application. But it seems there are some folks who are using cold cured acrylics to make dentures.

If you are referring to someone using custom tray liquid with heat cure pink so they can speed things up that is using the wrong thing with the wrong thing, and is a cheap application, and a cheap substitution with bad results.
Using the wrong processing method with the wrong material is just as problematic. There are also people calling light cure cold cure and some have tried to construct dentures with that as well.

have you read thi thread?
http://dentallabnetwork.com/forums/f2/heat-cure-versus-cold-cure-partials-4557/

or this paper it is pretty current
http://dentallabnetwork.com/forums/attachments/f2/523d1262976241-heat-cure-versus-cold-cure-partials-denture-base-artikel-engl.pdf
There are a lot of papers still on line from the 60's & 70's the chemistry has come a long way since the pre NASA times.

 

[MasterCeramist]

It's all a numbers game certain patients search for the cheapest price they can find and in turn the clinics look for the cheapest they can find and still make a buck. Now if the patient paid for premium and got stuck with cheap teeth and cold cure then they should have a problem but odds are they got what they paid for. We offer an economy denture at what I consider to be a good price and it is still not cheap enough for many of the offices that call price shopping but it is heat cured with decent teeth.

 

[MRLABTECH]

Thank you for that very useful information. I thoroughly went through it and digested as much as possible. It was very useful. In my case, I have had a much higher than normal amount of denture wearers come into my office with dentures which are usually between 1 and 2 years old and are already in bad shape - cracking, popouts, fading, odor in the acrylic, broken, highly unusual for a new denture. These dentures seem to be coming from the same place and they are selling dentures for a price that is so low, it makes me wonder. I do not know what type of denture you get for less than 290 dollars, but something tells me it can't be a long lasting or good a quality denture. I was trained to follow certain procedures and I do. But it makes me wonder how anyone can promise to make a denture in a day for that kind of price. I looked on the internet just the other day and there are a ton of complaints under one of the dental clinics that also make dentures. They are a national dental & denture chain as well I found out. Anybody run into this?

 

[AJEL]

In 2001 a DDS was making dentures out of triad, an open matrix light cured material with a paint on sealer. When the sealer wore or was scratched you could just see the black grow in the denture. When you grind the denture is it powder, shaving or pealing?
Is that $290. to the DDS or to the Pt?
I know several labs making a fair product with NH teeth or Z teeth using Diamond D or Fricke HI I for around that price. To a pt I wouldn't know, generally the lab fee is 5-20% the fee to the pt. I understand most of my DDS are charging $1900.-$2200. per arch.
You should contact with a PM to drm313mac & ask him about those "as Dave calls it denture mills"/
You need at least 2 more post to have PM on here.

 

[Francis]

Yes I have actually in seattle. I use to run a lab in Bellevue, and I was doing work from down south. I seen some that was cold cured it look like crap. I know everyone is against sending work to china but I now own a lab in china and the techs here do beautiful work. Im sorry to say but some places in the states are really going down in quality. I am not bashing on the states i was born and raised there but i just see a trend happening.

 

[kcdt]

Mrlabtech, it has always been my understanding that the corporate mills offering that kind of price (i.e., far below the ave. $300 mark) are operating on a business model wherein the goal is to sell clinical procedures (for instance, extractions) at a price that makes it worth offering the low end denture as a virtual giveaway. For those already with prosthetics, the goal is to sell the "upgrade" models.

What you are seeing in those is something made at lowest possible cost because the real profit is driven by other procedures. It's not technically a lost leader, but often the really crappy ones may as well be.

FWIW, there are clinical practices that focus on removable prothetics as the main driver and slow down and really go through a quality process. Ryan McCall in ft collins comes to mind. So it doesn't have to be the worst to be very lucrative, it's just that corporate franchises and/or ignorant/ unmotivated clinics/ labs still seem to make a buck, so...
The numbers you see are a reflection of the fact that the numbers relating to denture need are still rising demographically, while competent technical/ clinical know how and experience have been declining.

 

[SeanJ]

I have always used heat cure for full dentures, lucitone 199 for my premium cases i have used many brands and found that the one i like is QC20 heatcure from dentsply very good all round acrylic which is very forgiving with processing parameters also the rapid repair has a ver good flowability very good for Partial Co/Cr and also a very good colour match to the heat cure
If you supply a quality product to your patients they will be happy and recommend you and price should not be an issue.
for example if you gave your patient an option of premium teeth at a higher price and give them reasons why they are better most the time they will take the quality item over the cheaper option.

 

[MRLABTECH]

Well said kc, well said.

 

[alanklen]

I don't understand what sort of denture you get for less than 290 dollars, but something tells me it cannot be considered a long lasting or great an excellent denture. I was trained to follow specific processes and I do. But it makes me question how anyone can guarantee to produce a denture in each day for that sort of cost. I searched on the web only the other day and you will find a lot of complaints under among the dental practices which also make dentures. They're a national dental & denture chain as well I found out.

 

[dborla01]

I am not surprised by this thread. Those national denture chains also are constantly looking for technicians, and that tells you something about their agenda, too. Having known a former office worker who told horror stories about the "up-selling" going on to perspective Pt.'s by the finance dept., and the fact that we get many Pt's coming to us, disgusted by these chains, I wonder when their time' will be up. Darrell.

 

[PDLtd]

I don't understand what sort of denture you get for less than 290 dollars, but something tells me it cannot be considered a long lasting or great an excellent denture. I was trained to follow specific processes and I do. But it makes me question how anyone can guarantee to produce a denture in each day for that sort of cost. I searched on the web only the other day and you will find a lot of complaints under among the dental practices which also make dentures. They're a national dental & denture chain as well I found out.

$290!!!!!! Is that the technician price to the dentist/denturist or the denture price to the patient?


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[denturist-student]

I only use microwaved or poured denture acrylic in immediate denture cases were I know they will be relined with t/c and after six months will be rebased.

 

[Robert A Young]

I use heat cute unless they cannot wait.

 

[Inna-Hurry]

I have always used heat cure for full dentures, lucitone 199 for my premium cases i have used many brands and found that the one i like is QC20 heatcure from dentsply very good all round acrylic which is very forgiving with processing parameters also the rapid repair has a ver good flowability very good for Partial Co/Cr and also a very good colour match to the heat cure
If you supply a quality product to your patients they will be happy and recommend you and price should not be an issue.
for example if you gave your patient an option of premium teeth at a higher price and give them reasons why they are better most the time they will take the quality item over the cheaper option.

Dentsply QC20 is not available here in the states... I sure do wish it was though...

 

[Inna-Hurry]

I don't understand the mentality of using cheap acrylic.... IT'S ALL CHEAP! Same labor involved whatever technique you use and the price difference per case may buy you a soda? Pro'lly working out of the trunk of a car....

 

[kytoothdude]

One denture = soda. 400 dentures = $. It's how manufacturing works. And no, I don't use cheap acrylic.

 

[Inna-Hurry]

I was saying the cost difference per denture from the cheapest to the most expensive acrylic may buy you a soda. So if that 4-500 bux is so important to a lab owner (not you as you go top shelf) over time maybe they need to diversify their time in another industry.