Ceramco 3 question

Mrs.galfriday

Mrs.galfriday

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I use Ceramco 3. When I opened my lab, I got a great deal on an extended set of this porcelain. I was familiar with it and the price was right for poor poor pitiful me.

I have found the porcelain to be somewhat chroma deficient, especially in light of all the latest postings. Is this characteristic of this porcelain? I just don't believe there is a shelf life on minerals.

Also, I feel my incisals might/are becoming a tad lighter.

I haven't purged my oven so maybe that would help. I read Purge All and Purge All Plus are good, do I need both?

I quit the lab business in 1990, then returned 2007. So I missed a lot of the innovations...aHEM.
 
aidihra

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I use Ceramco for pfm and it definitely has a high value(brighter/lighter look). I'll mix the A, B, C & D powders to bring the value down or add more chroma depending on the desired colour. For example, I ran out of A3 body & I'll use A3 opaque, B3+C1/D2 body with medium incisal. I know it's a pain to mix, but give it a try. It works for me because 80% of the cases I get are A3.
 
Mrs.galfriday

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Thanks aidihra. That is quite the elaborate recipe. I use the next darkest opacious dentin with 2 parts body (1:2) As in:

For A3 Vita shade: A3 opaque (corresponding crystals). A3.5 opacious dentin with 2 parts A3 at the margin and occlusal table
then A3 porcelain for the body. Very little incisal, usually a Medium: Dark (1:1) .

Funny how some doctors seem to have the same shades. I actually had one doc tell me he was color blind. This after struggling with trying to figure out what he wanted with his "too light too bright" comments. I finally guessed it must be the fact that he never gives us enough room for depth.
 
aidihra

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I haven't ordered new Ceramco porcelain in 5 years. My supply has been large enough and I just mix powders to find the right colour if I don't have it. The only time there's a problem is if the dentist asked for A3 when C1 was the proper shade. Sometimes the assistant/wife/husband/pet is also colour blind when selecting the shade.
 
Mrs.galfriday

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Yes, might as well get the pet into the mix. LOL
 
JMN

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Yes, might as well get the pet into the mix. LOL
Totally!
600px-Commodore_2001_Series-IMG_0448b.jpg
 
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Its not like Ceramco 3 is accurate color out of the bottle anyway. Needs more chroma opaque and incisal bended over the whole tooth.
 
rkm rdt

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Order a MIYO kit and do the final colour mods in the glaze.
 
Mrs.galfriday

Mrs.galfriday

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Order a MIYO kit and do the final colour mods in the glaze.
Okay I found the MiYo on the Jensen site. I would prefer to use it more as a glaze than structural. Still digesting the info. Thanks.
 
rkm rdt

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Okay I found the MiYo on the Jensen site. I would prefer to use it more as a glaze than structural. Still digesting the info. Thanks.
Combine that with your porcelain and you could achieve any shade and value.
The lumin and linen shades will help you control your value and mask any grey from metal.
You can nail the Vita 3D shades this way. the structure you can use to add contacts and occlusal details on posteriors instead of grinding in grooves.
If you can wrap your mind around a different way of achieving shades ,it may be the gateway to an easier workflow with better results. Check out the videos on YouTube.
This is not the only colouring system like this .Dentaurum has a very nice system too.
 
Mrs.galfriday

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Combine that with your porcelain and you could achieve any shade and value.
The lumin and linen shades will help you control your value and mask any grey from metal.
You can nail the Vita 3D shades this way. the structure you can use to add contacts and occlusal details on posteriors instead of grinding in grooves.
If you can wrap your mind around a different way of achieving shades ,it may be the gateway to an easier workflow with better results. Check out the videos on YouTube.
This is not the only colouring system like this .Dentaurum has a very nice system too.
Thank you so much for explaining. This material sounds revolutionary, and more importantly wouldn't cost me 5000 bucks for a new system.
MiYo youtube, got it. I will check out Dentaurum too. I am not adverse to learning new methods.
 
rkm rdt

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Thank you so much for explaining. This material sounds revolutionary, and more importantly wouldn't cost me 5000 bucks for a new system.
MiYo youtube, got it. I will check out Dentaurum too. I am not adverse to learning new methods.
You obviously know colour so there will be a minimal learning curve.
check out the miyo thread here on dln
 
aidihra

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Isn't miyo only for all ceramic systems, not pfm?
 
K

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I don't think so since it is a low fusing system.

paging @KIM
Sorry, missed this! MiYO's CTE is lower than traditional metal ceramics (Regardless of low fusing or not). Having said that, we are hearing of more and more techs using it on their PFM's. We believe they are not seeing issues as it is applied in such a thin layer (0.1-0.2 mm) but we cannot officially recommend it for use with metal ceramics at this point but when that changes, we will let you know.
 

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