Carbon vs Asiga?

K

kenn

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Trying to decide between the Carbon M2 and Asiga MAX. Not super concerned about resin/ecosystem lock-in, just want the highest quality + accuracy. Want to experiment with printing night guards and dentures.
 
G

grantoz

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Asiga max all the way i have 2 they just work ,easy to set up one is 18 -20 months old it has not missed a beat .they both used all day with different materials they are very accurate.and open.
 
OP
K

kenn

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Asiga max all the way i have 2 they just work ,easy to set up one is 18 -20 months old it has not missed a beat .they both used all day with different materials they are very accurate.and open.
I'm leaning towards the Asiga too, the only thing giving me pause is the KeyStone Splint material and the printable Lucitone. A Keystone rep told me that the Splint resin for Carbon comes out clear, but the resin for the Asiga comes out yellow and turns clear after a few days. Do you have any experience with that?
 
Beatrice

Beatrice

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$50 000/year indefinitely or a fair pricing ? :p

We tried all 3D printers in 2019-2020(over 40 models) and Asiga in the low cost was by FAR the most precise, 1 problem : production rate is very low.
We decided in our easy going 3D printers and for r&d to goes with the new form3 B that was almost at the same accuracy of the asiga but a way bigger bed for production. (price are pretty similar in formlab and asiga)

Otherwise we use industrial 3D printer for massive production but cost wise we are in another level.
 
CoolHandLuke

CoolHandLuke

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$50 000/year indefinitely or a fair pricing ? :p

We tried all 3D printers in 2019-2020(over 40 models) and Asiga in the low cost was by FAR the most precise, 1 problem : production rate is very low.
We decided in our easy going 3D printers and for r&d to goes with the new form3 B that was almost at the same accuracy of the asiga but a way bigger bed for production. (price are pretty similar in formlab and asiga)

Otherwise we use industrial 3D printer for massive production but cost wise we are in another level.
lets not forget 50k/year is just the lease price, you don't own the machine at the end of the lease.
 
S

sirmorty

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You can't just simply experiment with a Carbon printer.
Like Luke mentioned you don't even own it.

I use a Sprint Ray and have printed the Keystone soft.
It definitely has a blue tinge to it, The clear color is exclusive to Carbon Printers is my understanding.



IMG_20200915_093314.jpg
 
C

[email protected]

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Happy to comment on any Carbon questions out there. I recently took delivery of our 2nd Carbon. After years of running 6 other printers we moved to Carbon. Yes the price is crazy, you never own it, they do not cut any deals and you most likely will not hit the ROI you want. What it does, it works hands down and that was the solution we were looking for. Is it $50k worth it, not so much if you are only producing models. Dentures, night guards, custom trays, surgical guides you have to feed the beast to make it worth while. You don't have to babysit it, worry about bad print or worry about any validation issues. Again not for everyone and it took me months to pull the trigger on one. I will say if you get one, get one with the large build plate. The smaller build plate (same plate just the computer chokes down the printable area) is a huge disappointment. DO NOT GET A CARBON IF YOU ARE GETTING THE SMALL BUILD PLATE it is absolutely useless. It is a joke of a build plate unless you get the large build plate. This was a major sticking point with us. Go all in or get something else. The Carbon Dentsply Lucitone material is great, no issues. Use stock card teeth or mill your own teeth, no problem. Again happy to tell the good and bad if interested.

The Keystone night guard material for Carbon is great. Perfect fit and often the case can be completed from an IOS without a model. Material is clear and we are seeing excellent results.
 
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G

grantoz

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for me the price of the carbon is too high the asiga max is not big but as you need more prints you just get an extra printer this gives you redundancy and flexibility in what you want print or you go to the asiga 4k if want bigger prints
 
rkm rdt

rkm rdt

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Happy to comment on any Carbon questions out there. I recently took delivery of our 2nd Carbon. After years of running 6 other printers we moved to Carbon. Yes the price is crazy, you never own it, they do not cut any deals and you most likely will not hit the ROI you want. What it does, it works hands down and that was the solution we were looking for. Is it $50k worth it, not so much if you are only producing models. Dentures, night guards, custom trays, surgical guides you have to feed the beast to make it worth while. You don't have to babysit it, worry about bad print or worry about any validation issues. Again not for everyone and it took me months to pull the trigger on one. I will say if you get one, get one with the large build plate. The smaller build plate (same plate just the computer chokes down the printable area) is a huge disappointment. DO NOT GET A CARBON IF YOU ARE GETTING THE SMALL BUILD PLATE it is absolutely useless. It is a joke of a build plate unless you get the large build plate. This was a major sticking point with us. Go all in or get something else. The Carbon Dentsply Lucitone material is great, no issues. Use stock card teeth or mill your own teeth, no problem. Again happy to tell the good and bad if interested.

The Keystone night guard material for Carbon is great. Perfect fit and often the case can be completed from an IOS without a model. Material is clear and we are seeing excellent results.
Can you give me some tips on polishing the Keystone material to a high shine?
 
Bryce @ WhipMix

Bryce @ WhipMix

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I'd also like to point out that the Asiga Pro4K is now available. $25,000 and you OWN IT. Bigger build plate than the Carbon M2. Just as fast. More accurate. Over 400 resins already validated and more added every single week.

As for the KeySplint, they will come out clear, with a slightly blue-ish tint, due to a pigment that Keystone adds. But you can get them crystal clear. It's all about post-cure technique and polishing.
 
rkm rdt

rkm rdt

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I'd also like to point out that the Asiga Pro4K is now available. $25,000 and you OWN IT. Bigger build plate than the Carbon M2. Just as fast. More accurate. Over 400 resins already validated and more added every single week.

As for the KeySplint, they will come out clear, with a slightly blue-ish tint, due to a pigment that Keystone adds. But you can get them crystal clear. It's all about post-cure technique and polishing.
I'll ask again.
How do you achieve a high shine with the Keystone material?
 
C

[email protected]

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As soon as Asiga (or others) have a validated workflow for the Dentsply Lucitone 199 print I will buy one. Until then Carbon is the game. It is up to Carbon to keep all these willing high paying customers going. They fail to produce relationships and materials that are exclusive to Carbon then you will see labs exit. Again, Carbon is just a printer, good but certainly not the only one that can print great results. If they did not have the Lucitione material we would have not signed up for the unit. Digital dentures, love them or hate them, is a reality just like when monolithic zirc bruxzir hit the market.

At this point its not a debate about accuracy. Lots of great choices out there for printers. Its more of a business decision and what the equipment can do for your lab, your team and ultimately for the doctor/patient.
 
S

sirmorty

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Here is a video about the polishing.

 
OP
K

kenn

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$50 000/year indefinitely or a fair pricing ? :p

We tried all 3D printers in 2019-2020(over 40 models) and Asiga in the low cost was by FAR the most precise, 1 problem : production rate is very low.
We decided in our easy going 3D printers and for r&d to goes with the new form3 B that was almost at the same accuracy of the asiga but a way bigger bed for production. (price are pretty similar in formlab and asiga)

Otherwise we use industrial 3D printer for massive production but cost wise we are in another level.
What industrial printer are you using? And are you using it strictly for models?
 
Wainwright

Wainwright

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Its Formlabs or Asiga. I'm not really sure anything else makes sense.

I made this intro to dental 3D printing video a month or so ago I'd recommend anyone just getting into this technology check it out. I tried to be as unbias as possible and it honestly has some good insights for dental 3D printing generally.

Thanks
 
OP
K

kenn

New Member
Full Member
Its Formlabs or Asiga. I'm not really sure anything else makes sense.

I made this intro to dental 3D printing video a month or so ago I'd recommend anyone just getting into this technology check it out. I tried to be as unbias as possible and it honestly has some good insights for dental 3D printing generally.

Thanks
I actually grew up in the Boston area and lived near the Formlabs offices before you guys got big! Been toying around with getting a 3B for smaller batches :)
 
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