CAD designed splints

Cbite Dental Products

Cbite Dental Products

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I have shown many many already.

You're just late to the party! LOL

I guess I am late for the party too...but I am like a sponge from here on...did you say videos? A million words? I left the other thread clean for your videos.
 
disturbed

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I don't know how long you been on the I-net, but consider everything you see/read to be 1/2 life and 1/2 fantasy.

This site is free, and I help provide entertainment at my own expense.

Just roll with it and don't take things personally.

You are welcome to fight back and I encourage it!

Just make it funny, witty, and good entertainment.

Then throw in some helpful things Once in a while.

Then we get along just fine!

You know I do not know you or anything about you. Just brush it off and smile!

Nobody takes me seriously on here, including myself! That's just me. An internet personality, if you will?

I am not like this in real life. Otherwise I probably would be out of business and divorced. LOL

But, that's not the case!

There is enough work out there for all of us!

All my emplyees are always working overtime!

I do not feel the need to fight for work at all.

Take Bob @ CAP as an example....I do not know him. Never met him.

I never even met someone that has met Bob! LOL

I just like to pick on him because it is fun. I think he knows this (maybe?)

I am sure we would get along in real life just fine, but on here things seem different.

I pick on everyone. No exclusions! Mark Jackson, Travis the owner, everyone!

Glidwell, 3M, Sirona, sh1t I even bust on Medit at times and I am even a reseller!! Crazy eh?

Then, I turn around and help most of them again. That's just how I am.
wheres my dam hammer you flake?....
 
SpyGr

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DIGISPLINTTWHITTY_zps39a705f8.png


Thats Better.... Roland DWX50 Milled splint on Objet VeroDent printed model.
This is how we do them these days.
exocad software.

Hello Terry happy new year. Which scanner did you use? I also have a Roland DWX-50 and EXOCAD with all modules. In the interdental spaces does the splint have 100% accuracy in its fit?
 
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Terry Whitty

Terry Whitty

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Hello Terry happy new year. Which scanner did you use? I also have a Roland DWX-50 and EXOCAD with all modules. In the interdental spaces does the splint have 100% accuracy in its fit?
Thanks, Happy New Year too you too!
I am really fond of the Maestro 3D Scanners from Italy. These scanners are totally underrated. I have used just about every scanner on the market, or seen scanning results from most, and i still am of the opinion that these stand up with the best. That being said there are some other good scanners on the market..and some terrible ones.

With a Maestro scanner and a good Quad core computer you can get a great scan of a full arch in a very short time indeed, with full inter proximal capture.... unlike a lot of scanners I see where there is a ton of data missing especially in the inter proximal areas. The scanning software has an algorithm specifically designed for full arch capture as these scanners are used with Maestro 3D Ortho Studio Software. ( ortho software written by the same company) That's not to say they can't do scanning for C and B applications or implants as well, they do, we use them everyday for everything without issue.

The other thing to consider is that the exocad bite splint module will survey and block out the model undercuts for you ( and this is fully customisable and selective ) and you can also adjust the offset ( space between model and splint) to your liking..this is key in getting a splint to fit correctly.

The fit we are getting is just great, far better than we can get with traditional methods.. and why? Because we now have better and more accurate control over a lot of parameters that traditional methods just don't allow us to have. We remove it from the mill cut the connectors and it fits. We are also using 3D printed models as our fitting model, so no more scratched or broken teeth on master models.

I'm not saying people can't make great splints by hand... it's just time consuming....however we have replaced all of our splint manufacturing now with DigiSplint and we even offer a thermolining fitting surface for those customers that require it.

What scanner do you use and what CAM software are you using with your Roland?
 
DMC

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Does this Italian scanner also use the Open Technologies scan-head Terry? (Just testing you...)

If you have One, can you take a pic of the cameras inside the chamber for me?

How far are they apart? Can you choose to not close holes? (Datavoids) to actually see if it does indeed capture the data interprox?

Why do you feel the need to print a model? Certainly you did not scan that model, right?

In the US, most people poo-poo on the Objet made models.

I personally am not impressed at all by them.

I absolutly hated that POS scanner. Single axis rotary....not accurate, too many data voids due to cameras too far apart.

Don't know of anyone in the US happy with the Sinergia, or Open Tech, or EGS, or the Maestro scanner.

All have the same Italian scanhead. Crap for Dental use IMO. Don't buy One!! Over-rated POS!
 
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Terry Whitty

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Does this Italian scanner also use the Open Technologies scan-head Terry? (Just testing you...)

If you have One, can you take a pic of the cameras inside the chamber for me?

How far are they apart? Can you choose to not close holes? (Datavoids) to actually see if it does indeed capture the data interprox?

Why do you feel the need to print a model? Certainly you did not scan that model, right?

In the US, most people poo-poo on the Objet made models.

I personally am not impressed at all by them.

I absolutly hated that POS scanner. Single axis rotary....not accurate, too many data voids due to cameras too far apart.

Don't know of anyone in the US happy with the Sinergia, or Open Tech, or EGS, or the Maestro scanner.

All have the same Italian scanhead. Crap for Dental use IMO. Don't buy One!! Over-rated POS!

Hi Scott,
The cameras in the Maestro scanner are ueye brand cameras, I believe they come from a German company but are Japanese lenses and are USB cameras. http://en.ids-imaging.com/video_ueye.html

The angle and distance between them, I don't know, I have never measured it. I do know it's very important, but other than that sorry I don't know. So if that is what you are referring to as a "scan head" then that is what is in it. Scanners are not too complex, cameras, USB or Ethernet interface and main board, mechanics and software. It's the engineers that work all the tricky stuff out and write the code so I leave it to them. When i go back to work (13th) I will take a pic for you...Summer holidays here at the moment... but you guys have some snow!

You cannot choose to leave datavoids open, but probably can in the admin setup program for inspection. They probably leave this out to make it more user friendly ...or cover things up...who knows..LOL...

I think the best person to talk to about the Maestro Scanner would be from the people who make it.
The person you need to talk to is Andrea Spinelli. He is the CEO, tell him i sent you,he knows far more about scanning technology than I would even pretend to know and he would be more than interested in your reasons for your "POS" opinion on his scanner, if you did include his. He can send you plenty of scans to test as well Im sure.
[email protected] is his email. He would more than happy to engage in the technicalities of scanning.

I am however looking forward to their new 4th Generation Scanner in the next month or so, similar mechanism to the Medit blue I believe, I saw the prototype, so similar in function of the mechanics anyway. You should have a talk with Andrea, the scanner may surprise you.

One thing we do agree on here... egs I don't find them a very useful or user freindly scanner at all, at least not for dental.

We get more and more digital impressions as the uptake of IOS increases, mainly 3Shape Trios and Itero, some Sirona, so we have a genuine reason to print models in a lot of cases.
We also accept scans of impressions and/or models from labs all over Oceania, ( anywhere in the world for that matter) If that's what people want to send us , so be it.. Im not going to argue with what they want to send. The more the merrier. Sure printing from someone else's scanned models may not be ideal, but Gypsum has never been the perfect material either.

I have had no issues with any of our Objet printers, or the models printed on. A correctly calibrated printer does a good job, as long as you don't expect the earth. I have been printing for nearly 4 years and when used in the correct context, printed models can be very helpful. I don't think there is a "perfect" printed model. I have seen some impressive 3d printed models but these come from fairly expensive machines probably beyond what we would invest in. I have no idea how accurate these "high end" ones are. We also do not just print models for other labs, we make a job and fit it to a printed model only , be it an IOS or impression/model scan thats just how we work, that way someone does not simply take a 3D printed model from us and take it back into their analogue world and use it for a substitute plaster model.. not a good idea in my opinion...but they do try..LOL.
I actually think printed models make a great pairing with the CAD CAM solution of dental, and that's what we do as long as its suitable.

Like lots of people I have examined many different brands of printed models, what they "look like" does not necessarily reflect their accuracy or other properties. I have seen some great "looking" models but when it comes to the crunch their other properties are less than adequate. Again..these were only samples so maybe not a fair evaluation.
A dental technician in Australia is financing a scientific study on 3D printed dental models at the moment, this will be a tricky one but he wants to do it, when I get the results I will pass it on. I think it will be interesting.

I think you always have to consider purchase price vs performance with 3D printers and if they are suitable for every laboratory, or even financially viable. Personally I would not be without them. They have been a great investment for us. That being said, I also think that different printers may suit different applications.. PolyJet, vs DLP for example.. DLP seem to be dropping in price quicker so this may be worth a look for some labs. I can see lots of labs trying to use sub 5k printers in the near future. I wonder if they will be satisfied?

The real test for any 3D printer, or any machine for that matter, is the day in day out use of it, not just a few sample prints, I'm sure you will agree with this.
Reliability, repeatability, general running costs, cost of servicing, material costs, yadda, yadda, yadda..you get the idea..are all really important factors.

I have tried the 3D Systems printers, DWS and Envisiontec as well, depending on what you want both do a good job as well. I'm not a big fan of FDM though, as you will also appreciate, but laser sintering (plastics) is an emerging technology, but again is expensive and finding the right materials is ongoing polymer science.

It's actually really difficult, unless blatantly obvious, without the complete dataset and an unbiased scientific comparison to say one product is better and the other is just crap. Mostly when people do this they actually have never had any real world long term experience with both, usually just one, and that's fair enough because usually time does not permit it, and in the real world everyone wants to think what they have, or what they sell "is the best". Why not.. as The Fonz said.. "The world runs on BS".

Anyhow now the cricket is on so looks like it will be Australia 5 England ZERO... Ahhh how nice.



p.s

Here are some of the release notes for the version 4 Maestro Easy Dental Scan... just released, you may be interested.

Release notes:
- 50% scanning time reduction and improved scanning quality;
-- thanks to a better structured light algorithm that uses less images to perform acquisition, it is now possible to perform acquisition step in half time compared with the previous version;
- more scanning options:
-- the rotary table can make up to 20 steps;
-- for the result of 3d scanned surface up to 2 millions points of triangles can be obtained;
-- a new postprocessing method has been added (slow but more accurate);
-- postprocessing time for stumps has been reduced (up to 8 elements in less than 2 minutes*);
- the quality of the 3D model has been increased-- thanks to a perfected acquisition algorithm, the capability to detect fine details of object surface has been improved;
-- thanks to the new postprocessing method and new calibration method, the difference between output 3d model and acquired point of clouds is now below 2 microns;
- accuracy and repeatability have been improved **
- calibration:

-- the scanner calibration procedure has been improved (new complex algorithms to remove optical aberrations and perform stereo camera calibration have been applied);-- scanning calibration module: Now there is a calibration module in Easy Dental Scan software. With few simple steps it is now possible to calibrate scanner in order to be sure to obtain maximum scanning quality. Scanning calibration module requires a separate calibration toolkit and a license that is now available for purchase. An extensive documentation about calibration procedure is available.
 
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Cbite Dental Products

Cbite Dental Products

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Thanks, Happy New Year too you too!
I am really fond of the Maestro 3D Scanners from Italy. These scanners are totally underrated. I have used just about every scanner on the market, or seen scanning results from most, and i still am of the opinion that these stand up with the best. That being said there are some other good scanners on the market..and some terrible ones.

With a Maestro scanner and a good Quad core computer you can get a great scan of a full arch in a very short time indeed, with full inter proximal capture.... unlike a lot of scanners I see where there is a ton of data missing especially in the inter proximal areas. The scanning software has an algorithm specifically designed for full arch capture as these scanners are used with Maestro 3D Ortho Studio Software. ( ortho software written by the same company) That's not to say they can't do scanning for C and B applications or implants as well, they do, we use them everyday for everything without issue.

The other thing to consider is that the exocad bite splint module will survey and block out the model undercuts for you ( and this is fully customisable and selective ) and you can also adjust the offset ( space between model and splint) to your liking..this is key in getting a splint to fit correctly.

The fit we are getting is just great, far better than we can get with traditional methods.. and why? Because we now have better and more accurate control over a lot of parameters that traditional methods just don't allow us to have. We remove it from the mill cut the connectors and it fits. We are also using 3D printed models as our fitting model, so no more scratched or broken teeth on master models.

I'm not saying people can't make great splints by hand... it's just time consuming....however we have replaced all of our splint manufacturing now with DigiSplint and we even offer a thermolining fitting surface for those customers that require it.

What scanner do you use and what CAM software are you using with your Roland?

Great info. What kind of price for the Maestro?
 
Terry Whitty

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I'm really not sure what the scanner goes for in the US.
Contact Charlie at Great Lakes Orthodontics for a price on the scanner, they are an agent.
[email protected]

Send me your email and i can send you some scans if you like.
 
Terry Whitty

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He
Does this Italian scanner also use the Open Technologies scan-head Terry? (Just testing you...)

If you have One, can you take a pic of the cameras inside the chamber for me?

How far are they apart? Can you choose to not close holes? (Datavoids) to actually see if it does indeed capture the data interprox?

Why do you feel the need to print a model? Certainly you did not scan that model, right?

In the US, most people poo-poo on the Objet made models.

I personally am not impressed at all by them.

I absolutly hated that POS scanner. Single axis rotary....not accurate, too many data voids due to cameras too far apart.

Don't know of anyone in the US happy with the Sinergia, or Open Tech, or EGS, or the Maestro scanner.

All have the same Italian scanhead. Crap for Dental use IMO. Don't buy One!! Over-rated POS!

Here is a pic..needed to go up to the lab to let someone in so took a quick shot..hope it helps..... England still doing poorly in Cricket...

MEASTRO SCANNER CAMERAS.JPG
 
Terry Whitty

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Well I can gloat a bit about it... LOL
 

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DMC

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You don't need to explain how to measure something to me. I would never just go by looks, although anyone can see the difference between 3dsystems ProJet and an Objet. It is Night and Day!

I sent my 3dsystems models to 3M.....they ran metrology on it and sent me back the results.

+/- Twenty Something (?) Microns..... I was then approved to 3d print Lava COS models. (Four or Five years ago) First in the USA to do so!

It was better than the Objet that they later tested. So I am not just guessing Terry. That's not how I post.

I think Andrea was in my lab for a few days already? I have had a couple Single axis scanners before, and never again will I.

Your scanhead is not what I thought it was.....Thanks for posting!

Maybe it does indeed have decent data capture and not too many voids?

Why really knows since it auto-fills the holes?? LOL

I too can close a hole with various Industrial CAD software and have the software consider the adjacent geomerty and "guess" to what is missing.

At first glance, it seems the scanner captured all data, but this is not the case!

You're posts are too long.....explaining the obvious again Terry.

Multi-Jet printers have fixed holes that the material comes out of. There is no calibration.

What are you talking about?? Your Mitsubishi printhead cannot be changed. It is, what it is.....

All you can do is expand the original stl file in Three axis across the entire print plate to compensate for shrinkage of the material as it cures. Is this what you call calibration?

Laser curing of plastics have been around since 1987! I would not exactly call that new technology.

Chuck Hall did it first back then...

Those printers do need calibration of the laser scanning mechnism....Often parts are skewed at the edges of the build plate. Not so with your objet, or my 3d systems Multi-Jet printer.
 
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DMC

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http://dentallabnetwork.com/forums/threads/noob-to-cad.3651/

Please scroll down to the pic of the little Drone next to a Penny Coin.....

I can send you that file to print on your Objet.

I would be glad to PayPal you to print it, and post the pics.

We should easily see the difference between the Two printers!

The little barrels are hollow BTW.

All Older pics are now doubles, since Travis upgraded (I say Downgraded) the web-site.

Don't know why...??
 
Terry Whitty

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Scott,
So back to the point... the Maestro scanner was nothing that you thought it was and you criticised it without knowing so much about it...so maybe it is ok after all.
Again I say it is doing me fine and I believe improving all the time.

I really don't need to print anything for you.. if you already know the outcome it would be a pointless exercise. If you are happy with 3D Systems, great keep it up. No one said they were bad printers at all. In fact some of the stuff they have is awesome, but probably not for the average lab. If you really need some stuff printed to compare and want to post it Im sure Stratasys USA would be happy to print anything for you if you like. They would be far more qualified than me I'm sure especially non dental stuff.

I think the previous post explained my opinion of 3d printing in general reasonably well. If you disagree, fine , the world still turns.

Yes, Stereolithography was invented actually prior to 1986 in fact, but you know well I was not referring to that..and yes Charles "Chuck" Hull actually not Chuck Hall patented the process, did go on to form 3D systems.. and define STL file format, yadda yadda, it's all on the internet.

So I guess Selective laser sintering was invented too in the 80's but "emerging" as in becoming more accessible is probably more correct way to describe it.


Anyway I will let you know how the new Maestro scanner goes, when i get the new model, maybe you can have a look at some scans and let me know what you think?


Short enough?
 
Terry Whitty

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And yes agreed, the little droid thingy near the penny is cool.
Objet printers would not be able to do these sorts of things.
 
Terry Whitty

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But.. can do dental models reasonably well...again.. depending what you want.
 
Terry Whitty

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Scott,
Just to clarify... " not for the average lab" I mean some of the 3D Systems high end stuff. I was not referring to DP and HD printers.
I mean not everyone is going to run out and buy a ProX 100...
 
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