Best printer for my purpose

[Andrew Priddy]

Sorry if I am really dragging this thread out, but even though its not a huge outlay for one of these hobby type printers something in the back of my mind keeps saying "If those frames and models aren't dimensionally accurate to the scan you're in for lots of heartache"
what is the best way to dial in the accuracy of the model Vs scan so it will be acceptable.
Would I have to scan the model after printing and then try and overlay it with the original scan to look for discrepancies, or is there another method to test ?
Thanks in advance

best fit will be to print and do some wax touch-up/ cleanup before casting.. dimensionally, the print will be accurate..
ive used enough dental resin to know that just because it has the wording "dental use" doesn't mean it is "magically superior".. quite the opposite IMO

 

[Affinity]

Dimensional accuracy is tested by printing a cube or test pattern and measuring it. If its supposed to be 1cm cubed, it should measure that with a micrometer.

 

[Andrew Priddy]

a 10mm cube is a 10mm cube. not an arch. resins aren't cold cure and don't shrink. model inaccuracy's (print or pour) are the "bigger inaccuracy" to be concerned about. then add in scanning and any host of errors...

for printed frames to cast, i would skim the frame with wax (where it wont alter fit).. and also wax-in the intended retention points for intimate fit.
"skimming" the frame with wax will allow for the immediate "heat expansion" of the frame which cracks the 8lb block you are about to throw 4lbs of molten crco into.. and leads to the biggest inaccuracy imo...

i love the thrill of "ducking" molten metal, don't get me wrong

 

[Scotties dental studio]

@Andrew Priddy @Affinity
MANY thanx for all the valuable info that you have given me so far, it has really helped to ease my mind about getting into printing, I will no doubt be asking a hoard of tech questions once I have invested in a printer, Even though the idea of doing some digital stuff is daunting I think it will be rewarding to see the digital workflow come to life after having done the analog methods for so long, It will still only be for a few jobs as I do not receive many IOS but that should allow me the time to iron our gliches and try different things to perfect my product

 

[Andrew Priddy]

any time, you will do well starting with a few accounts and going from there. Analog is currently being "lost" to digital.. right along with the mastery to understand the steps in between. understanding "both" or "utilizing" the 2 together brings a low cost solution and optimal results. there is always something new to learn in CAD

 

[MatPhil]

I agree

 

[Affinity]

if analog is lost to digital, so is our job. I feel sorry for younger techs, there really is no future in this industry, unless you like working in a gulag. I give it 5-10 years before there is no need for a human other than to click a mouse and huff fumes. happy printing!

 

[toothyone]

Im a huge Phrozen fanboy. It’s not because there customer service (which is sub-par to say the least), it’s because it’s like IKEA. You know you’re not getting the best on the market, you may need to replace it for a better model but at least it serves your exact needs and has many options for your exact budget.

For models it’s great. I use their regular model resin (Aqua 4K) which is $40 a bottle and never had issues. Phrozen has their own castable resin at $115 for 500g bottle. No tweaking for their resins and no super expensive cure box for their resins.

They also have a new filament printer as well. Phrozen is great for their selection of printers, resins and low cost. Even if you upgrade to a dental printer you will still get use out of your Phrozen printer for years to come. Good Luck.

I've been following your threads in regards to the Phrozen printers. I just bought a Phrozen Mini 8ks for our lab. We currently have a p30+ and an einstein xl printer that does most of the printing workload. Any tips and tricks for running the Phrozen? I will be using the grey aqua 8k resin. I am a bit confused on the Z calibration process in reference to using A4? Also did you adjust any resin settings in your slicing software to make the models more accurate?

 

[Affinity]

Use lychee slicer and be prepared for a lot of failed prints. Sticking is the main issue, make sure your bed is warm.

 

[toothyone]

Use lychee slicer and be prepared for a lot of failed prints. Sticking is the main issue, make sure your bed is warm.

I've been using chitubox and succesfully printed a die this morning, fit better than the einstein printer....which has been a headache since we got it. The resins expensive and misprints constantly. I tried a full arch model on the phrozen and it seems maybe more exposure time is needed as its almost book like in texture at the bottom. How are you keeping the tray warm?

 

[mmbh]

I've been using chitubox and succesfully printed a die this morning, fit better than the einstein printer....which has been a headache since we got it. The resins expensive and misprints constantly. I tried a full arch model on the phrozen and it seems maybe more exposure time is needed as its almost book like in texture at the bottom. How are you keeping the tray warm?

For standard models on the phrozen try printing flat to the build plate without supports. Have experienced better results.

 

[Affinity]

I put a space heater on it.. Its not ideal. Ive had more bad prints than success with it. There are so many variables from resin, to prints not sticking to tray, to prints sticking and breaking them to get them off, to film tearing and resin leaking everywhere, but mostly prints not sticking to the build tray. They do print better without supports, then you get into putting holes in the model etc.

 

[mightymouse]

. Any tips and tricks for running the Phrozen? I will be using the grey aqua 8k resin. I am a bit confused on the Z calibration process in reference to using A4?

So the A4 is just regular copy paper. Cut it to size, lay it flat on the screen where the resin tray would sit, loosen the 4 screws, let it do its thing, tighten and your good to go.

I prefer the Aqua 4K resin. Even on the 8K printer the 4k resin it is not as brittle as the 8K. I noticed that my support pins/attachments for articulated models would break with not so much pressure. The 4k is not as brittle and holds up when applying pressure to the pins/attachments.

Also did you adjust any resin settings in your slicing software to make the models more accurate?

I haven’t used any other slicer program but it’s worth a try if it’s better. I still use the free Chitubox program not the dental or the newest Chitubox. There printing times for some reason are 40% longer for the same orientation and file. When nesting I place them flat with suppers just because it’s so much easier to scrap of, especially when they are large and the tool has little room for leverage. Too many nicks and cuts so I just put supports. Glad to help.

 

[mmbh]

So the A4 is just regular copy paper. Cut it to size, lay it flat on the screen where the resin tray would sit, loosen the 4 screws, let it do its thing, tighten and your good to go.

I prefer the Aqua 4K resin. Even on the 8K printer the 4k resin it is not as brittle as the 8K. I noticed that my support pins/attachments for articulated models would break with not so much pressure. The 4k is not as brittle and holds up when applying pressure to the pins/attachments.



I haven’t used any other slicer program but it’s worth a try if it’s better. I still use the free Chitubox program not the dental or the newest Chitubox. There printing times for some reason are 40% longer for the same orientation and file. When nesting I place them flat with suppers just because it’s so much easier to scrap of, especially when they are large and the tool has little room for leverage. Too many nicks and cuts so I just put supports. Glad to help.

I put a chamfer angle on the back of the model, using a pry tool they pop right off the build plate.

 

[zero_zero]

I've been using only Phrozen printers for quite some time without any issues. Recently, I purchased an Elegoo printer (it was on sale, lol ), and it produced perfect prints right out of the box. I only needed to tweak one setting. I don't think I'll ever buy a 'dental' model in the foreseeable future.

 

[tuyere]

Yeah, it's a bummer that people have had lousy experiences with hobby printers, because they're always 'just worked' for me, for mundane model printing anyways. Things can get sticky with the more challenging model orientations and technical resins, but yeah, my $300 Elegoo Mars Pro printed beautifully from day one with no tweaking.

 

[mmbh]

I've been using only Phrozen printers for quite some time without any issues. Recently, I purchased an Elegoo printer (it was on sale, lol ), and it produced perfect prints right out of the box. I only needed to tweak one setting. I don't think I'll ever buy a 'dental' model in the foreseeable future.

Which elegoo? I have the phrozen 8k mighty with 12k upgrade kit. Its my model overflow printer.

 

[tuyere]

Mars Pro, the first one. It's a couple years old at this point, idk if it's even being supported any more, but it did a good job back when I was running it every day. Tiny build plate for dental models, though- I mostly used it to print multi-part casting molds for low-temperature metal casting.

 

[mmbh]

was thinking of getting the elegoo saturn 4 ultra or phrozen mighty revo ( but seems to have issues) just for fun. I do alot of misc printing as well.

 

[zero_zero]

Which elegoo?

Click the red link on my previous post