Bego Varseo 3D Printer

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Jussi Roivanen

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We contacted local retailer and asked for settings. They forwarded request to Bego. Then someone from Bego's support installed settings/materials/manufacturing process to 3shape/cambridge via teamviewer. Unfortunately i havent got time to test and try too much with models, so i use those settings which Bego has provided. Biggest "trick" is to raise (use of supports) the object from the baseplate, that eliminates many problems.
 
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Kan

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How about splints? We tried printing them, but there are just so many supports to cut off afterwards... is there a rule of thumb of how to minimize the number of supports? Thanks!
 
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Jussi Roivanen

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I dont think there is a rule of thumb. On any 3d-printing, any shape that has "shifting angle" over 40 (or was it 45) degrees from the base must be supported. But then, i have encountered situations where even "15 degs" are in the need of support. Then it varies a bit, depending on material and technigue the machine uses. I have not really done serious testing with VarseoWax Splint material and what sort of supporting it needs.

But then, fiddling with supports depends heavily on what you are doing. For me, the goal is finished product. So it means that one should do some grinding/polishing anyway, since a thing that comes out from printer does not meet "quality requirements". I print 2-3 occlusal splints at one go (i do manual placement: minimize area, rotate them so they are "hanging" from the plate.. like this _U_U_U_) and they all end up nicely with the supports that cambridge autogenerates. If some supports are autogen'd and placed REALLY acwardly, then i might remove couple. Usually i cannot be bothered to check those autogen'd supports. For Models and other stuff i check supports and usually end up adding some ("unbalance" of autogen'd supports)

If you provide "printing service", then you might worry about removing supports since you might save some of the material. but then.. if there is not enough supports, you will have "something" in your hands. You have a thing, which quality (is split twisted/otherwise messed, or is it good) is found out when customer tries to fit it. Good and consistend quality is what loyal customers get attracted to. Personally i would not compromize quality over material saving which i would gain removing few supports. 1 dollar higher prices and you will win easily 80-90 cents even if there is few extra support sticks :D

IHMO 3d-printing is good help, i can save time and make things more cost efficient. But i would say that "a piece of s**t is a piece of s**t, even it has been 3d-printed".
 
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Kan

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I dont think there is a rule of thumb. On any 3d-printing, any shape that has "shifting angle" over.....

Thanks for your advise Jussi. Another question about printing splints (if you don't mind)... if you print it flat (as suggested by the Bego instructions),then there will be a lot of supports, especially at the occlusal surfaces.

What about printing it vertically, with the anterior facing towards the base? It will take a lot longer, but there will be less supports at occlusal and in theory, would produce better results?

Am I missing something here?
 
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Jussi Roivanen

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Sorry for late reply, its been busy :(

yep, lots of supports on occlusal surface is not nice. Nowdays i mainly print vertically, like you said. and i never put supports to any of the "critical" surfaces (i use supports on anterior side and lateral sides only). I usually fit 3 of them on same plate (well.. only 2 if splints are "massive", haha). In some cases i throw in some additional supports for the "wings". Print time is around 3:40-4hrs for vertically positioned things. Most of time they will print out properly. For example yesterday one set of 2 splints failed and result was couple "lumps" in the bottom of container.

Keep in mind, if you keep usb-stick (which you use to transfer the job) on the machine when it prints, it creates serviceprot.csv file and machine writes various sensor data to it. I started looking into that file and noticed that one failed job had some wierd temperature data in that file.. i still have to investigate (compare data from other successful jobs and failed jobs) to see if there is correlation between failed job and data. At this moment i dont know if this failure is user error, or is machine overheating: incomplete job was last one of the day and machine had been printing 8+ hours in a row (i have couple containers so i just switched "lid" of the container and started new print job). Also i have to check with finnish retailer (and Bego) to ask if odd temp changes are "machines normal behaviour" in case of bad orientation/placing.
 
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Kan

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Sorry for late reply, its been busy :(....


Busy is good, all of us like busy ;)

Thanks for the detailed reply. We haven't got a chance to print splints yet, but I will certainly print it vertically with anterior side up. Takes longer, but saves time in the polishing process.

How's the fitting of the models with it? The dies we get are very tight in the model... so tight that I kind of think it is not seating well completely.
 
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What is the Price of this Bego Printer.. can anybody share it ?
 
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Jussi Roivanen

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DT&SHOP lists Bego printer to 22500 €. Then it is not a bad idea to get accessories, like extra material container, its handy esp. in cases you have long print queue: you just switch the "lid" which holds the print surface.. or if printing fails, cleaning container take some time and with another container, you pour material in and keep on printing. You get a good "starter set" (printer, accessories, materials etc) with 25k+ €

There is more expensive printers (eg. scheu-dental imprimo90 is 28400 €) on the market.. and diff printers use diff software to place objects on print surface.. and ofc there is material prices: eg. scheu-dental imprimo uses Unyk software, Bego Varseo integrates to 3shape Cambridge. On Bego machine, materials cost between ~400 and 500 € (1000g),and on Scheu-Dental materials are between 200-300 € (per 0.91liters)
 
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Sheikh

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Thanks for the info.. but I am looking for an exclusive WAX PRINTER (nothing more than that) can anybody have idea about only Wax Printers
 
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Kan

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Thanks for the info.. but I am looking for an exclusive WAX PRINTER (nothing more than that) can anybody have idea about only Wax Printers

I personally have no experience with it, but what about Projet 1200? Is it too low volume for you?
 
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Kan

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Hi Jussi,

We printed two splints vertically a few weeks back and the dentist tried them on a few days back... but he said the occlusion fitting is worse than when we printed the splinted horizontally (with supports on the occlusion surface).

I think I made enough supports at the buccal side... but is there any trick when you print the splints vertically?
 
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Sheikh

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I personally have no experience with it, but what about Projet 1200? Is it too low volume for you?


What would be the cost of Project 1200.. Do you have any idea ?
 
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Jussi Roivanen

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but he said the occlusion fitting is worse than when we printed the splinted horizontally (with supports on the occlusion surface).

In theory vertically oriented objects may have a tendency to "twist" a bit easier but we have not experienced any changes in occlusion fitting even if printed horizontally or vertically. We check the occ. splint fitting on the (gypsum) models and also check occlusion in regular articulator and they all seem to be "good".

I have to say, that now (after printing 100+ vertically) we are experiencing some anamolies on vertical prints and we have switchted printing occ splints horizontally.
 
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moli831

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Considering the price, the build plate is way too small. We utilize it for printing models for our 'digital' doctors. The Varseo S build plate is only 30% bigger, by comparison. It has been a headache to keep the machine functioning properly...
 
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Mahmoud9

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". Second one had "the separator effect" (and i was closer to plate).

Printing time depends on the highest object. my experience is that ~65mm height takes approx 4 hrs.
Hi Jussi,
For that "separator effect" -and after around a year - does that effect still exist ? Or u'd got things fixed ?
Because i still have that delamination of layers with no obvious reason ( btw i have a new material for wax and model ) which means we can exclude that reason.
Does the hieght really make a difference.

Thanks in advance,,
 
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Jussi Roivanen

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Well.. i have not been around for along time, but i keep checking how thigs are going on at lab from time to time (because of my own intrest).

One big thing turned out to be 3shape Cambridge and how it make slices (slices are essentially layers in print job). Slicing cambridge produces is sometimes "complete and utter bull****". Its improved a bit over time, but not enough. And slicing issue does not always "go away" even if you alter the created object a bit in 3shape dental system.

Solution was to get 3rd party program: old and free version of Netfab which allowed manually making adjustments to .stl files. Also some cases we had to use Rhino. New version of Netfab is crap and does not have some features that old one has. Bego is adjusting their VarseoSplint material and new one should be out in october 2017.

So some issues were due that slicing and partially also because of post processing, even though flashing unit that was used was accordance to specs specified in material manual. Unit that we used had tendency to heat up too much and that made end product fragile (we had experienced some breaking when in use). Solution was to make post processing in multiple parts, flash things for few mins then wait and again.. but that was pain in the ass. Now that lab has new flashing unit (BEGOs one with protective gas),things work a bit better. Also models are now coming up nicely, even hollowed and horseshoe shaped, full models.. which we had some troubles before.

Overall, when slicing is ALWAYS verified and fixed using 3rd party apps (with knowledge on those things) then the quality and consisteny of the printer is good. For us, the post processing is simple and easy enough even for reqular (not digi-native) lab tech to handle. Biggest issue is Cambridge, because slicing it produces simply are not consistent enough.

If you dont have much understanding in 3d modelling/slicing, then i suggest that find someone from your area and ask for help! that is how few got things sorted. Luckily we have an Univ. of Applied Sciences, which is doing research on different 3d printing possibilities (resin based and also metal printing),they have given us good tips, esp. how to deal with that ****ty slicing by cambridge.
 
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panmat1970

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Sorry, haven't been on the site for a while. Here is a pic of the nesting that we are doing for models currently. The models are printed solid, but we are working on getting the thickness down to make accurate models with a hollowed out space for material savings as well.

The second photo looks wet as it was just out of the vat, with the uncured material still present on the surface. The first photo showing the dies is what the product looks like fully cured and cleaned.
hello. i am wondering..did you manage to get the same exellent result with hollow models? because i didn t have any good result at all
 

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