At what point do you need to purchase a Miling unit and Scanner??

[TheLabGuy]

Where do you get your information from? Your milling center??? It doesn't take anywhere near a year to get things dialed in! We were up and running in a half a day and with all the support out there the learning curve is small.... I'm not saying there weren't any bumps in the road but it really isn't that difficult...... The main reason we stopped out sourcing was so that we had more control over the product going out the door. Im not going to be at the mercy of a milling center, heck if I wanted to I could become a milling center...... Hummm....

Congrats, you're the first person I met, may your head fit out your lab door at the end of the day

 

[rkm rdt]

Where do you get your information from? Your milling center??? It doesn't take anywhere near a year to get things dialed in! We were up and running in a half a day and with all the support out there the learning curve is small.... I'm not saying there weren't any bumps in the road but it really isn't that difficult...... The main reason we stopped out sourcing was so that we had more control over the product going out the door. Im not going to be at the mercy of a milling center, heck if I wanted to I could become a milling center...... Hummm....

My issues when I tried outsourcing previously-

Late returned cases

Shades off a mile

Rushed or incorrect sintering producing opacious crowns

Cracks in crowns

Bridges not fitting... At all

Pretty much get what they give you.

No time to redo case when they show up like above

No way to quickly reproduce a unit if an internal problem occurs

Hand waxing due to too high a cost for printed or mixed wax. ( paying for a re print or re mill if you have a mis press)

Doctors knowing you are outsourcing your work. My doctors love the fact I am doing it myself.

And so on

Just my two cents

Your milling center sucks

 

[CoolHandLuke]

yes i think that's what he was trying to convey in a more detailed fashion.

then again beauty is in the eye of the beholder and i used to work for a guy that needed coaxing into buying his own mill because the outsourced stuff was as sucky as Nicely described. some think the ZZ presinter dip works good - others think its not so nice... the point is sometimes the objective and subjective viewpoints are blurred by the psychology of making it yourself.

you'll always think what you make yourself is better than what others have made; the think that unifies this however, is in the presentation to colleagues. when we show off. then as a community we can objectively identify the weak points in each other and as hard as that may hurt, it establishes how our cognitive biases skew perception.

in short, yes Nicely's outsourced work sucked and sucked on an objective scale rather than a bias built on a few bad apples.

 

[DevonR]

You can't do nice customized work by outsourcing.

 

[TheLabGuy]

I agree Luke, also Mr. Nicely wasn't being completely forthcoming...admit it Jason its been quite a few years since you've tried a bunch of Milling Centers because you've been doing it yourself...say for about 4-5 years????? I'm curious if you tried some out there right now, say Argen on the west coast or Bego on the east coast if you'd have the same opinion you did at the point you started down your path to your own milling?...I only wonder because I've seen some drastic increase in quality pretty much from all the milling centers in the past couple years. Still not saying there isn't some shltty ones, because they exist!!!

 

[rkm rdt]

You can't do nice customized work by outsourcing.

Are you saying my work sucks Devon?

Everything I do in cad is outsourced except the ceramics. I am an arteest do you know

Are you milling your own custom abutments?

How is a fcz crown any different whether it's milled in house or outhouse? ( see what I did there?)

If I had someone employed like CHLuke then I could see in house milling since he speaks cyborg but old farts like LabGuy and me have no time fo dat

 

[Big Guy]

Congrats, you're the first person I met, may your head fit out your lab door at the end of the day

Big head?? Not hardly..... I'm just confident about the dicision we made as are you about yours.... I've been in this business for over 25yrs and wasn't excited in the least about going CAD CAM but it's been the best thing we've done for our lab.

 

[NicelyMKV]

Yes everybody, that was several years ago. I made the plunge so had no reason to try again. I am sure it has gotten better in average.

Shades can definitely be a problem. People see them how they want and everybody has an opinion on shade accuracy. I hated the precolored stuff you had to stain the crud out of after you sintered them. I prefer the dipped or hand painted pre sintered stuff. People were really struggling with that at the time I was outsourcing. They could have a half way accurate shading system but have to depend on other people to do it. Huge fluctuations in consistency due to that. I think a lot of that was due to the newness of the materials and processes. Should be much better by now.

I said before, I would most likely not gotten into milling if I had a good experience with milling centers from the get go

 

[DevonR]

hahaha... okay, well I can't speak of your work, so no.

But in my experience, shading was a huge issue when outsourcing. And the way I customize my crowns now, there's no way a milling centre would do what I do.

Yes, we are milling our own custom abutments.

I'm not just talking about fcz, I custom stain my cutback crowns as well.

And I can understand where you come from. I work with my father and have to teach him everything... but at least he's interested

Are you saying my work sucks Devon?

Everything I do in cad is outsourced except the ceramics. I am an arteest do you know

Are you milling your own custom abutments?

How is a fcz crown any different whether it's milled in house or outhouse? ( see what I did there?)

If I had someone employed like CHLuke then I could see in house milling since he speaks cyborg but old farts like LabGuy and me have no time fo dat

 

[rkm rdt]

Great thread everyone.

The debate has been very informative and passionate and I even got to use the raspberry emoticon on someone

...oh and Lab Guy even agreed with a Canadian.

Take that Obama!

 

[zero_zero]

This brings up the next question...what about getting a 3D printer ???

 

[rkm rdt]

 

[zero_zero]

Mesmerized from my avatars unibrow...are we ?

 

[rkm rdt]

It looks like it was printed onto your forehead.

 

[Mohammad Khair]

It looks like it was printed onto your forehead.

the caterbiller you mean or what ?

 

[rkm rdt]

Yes. I think it lives in the hole in his teeth.

 

[Glenn Kennedy]

In-house milling or outsourcing? Either way there's a good chance your restorations are created on a Roland DWX-50 mill.

 

[2thm8kr]

Great thread everyone.

The debate has been very informative and passionate and I even got to use the raspberry emoticon on someone

...oh and Lab Guy even agreed with a Canadian.

Take that Obama!

I heard when his term is done. (Obama) He's moving to Canada to run things there since he's done so well here.

 

[rkm rdt]

In-house milling or outsourcing? Either way there's a good chance your restorations are created on a Roland DWX-50 mill.

That's a great point Ken.

So saying that a crown milled inhouse is superior to an outsourced mill really is misleading . I see no difference other than the finish and the fabrication cost.

 

[eyeloveteeth]

it's significantly a better investment to get CAD before CAM. at least CAD is somewhat related to what a technician was doing. CAM is ...just another add on to the technician's repertoire and if someone is getting into it completely as a newbie, it can be stressful to handle both.

Send it out to the many milling centers around, and focus on CAD first