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charles007
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I've talked with so many labs in the past 12+ months and cad/cam companies, and even a trip to Calif to spent 2 days with 2 companies. Think I've asked every question I can think of with all the research I've done , until I talk to someone else .........then I learn something new.......Like 6k spindles that might last 4,5,6, plus years, cad software yearly updates with most scanners, but not all !, cam software update yearly cost possible, dead machines without paying for yearly updates, yearly maintenance cost, extra air compressor with the "best dryer".....
Every lab I've talked with is so happy with their system, no matter what brand it is.........
I'm going to buy a cad/cam system, and I'm totally convinced that its not to soon to buy one, even for a small lab.........Actually think the sooner a small lab buys into the digital era the better...assuming you have a good business.......
For those of you that think its crazy to spent up to 100k in a mom and pop lab like myself, plus my son may start working with me soon, please don't hold back with your ideas, suggestions .......
Now down to the down and dirty, nuts and bolts reasons to buy !
It will cost me $100. per day or less for a complete cad/cam system. I also look at it as though I have a new employee in the lab with a aprox $1700 to $2100. per mo. salary.......no matching taxes ! that is very fast and doesn't call in sick..... and allows me to use zirconia to save aprox $4.00 per unit at todays cost , over my average pfm Noble ceramic alloy cost, and turn many pfms/gold crowns/ metal occlusal pfms into full contour zir and to full contour-veneered into a $ 8.00 coping only cost ,or $12.00 to $14. frame/ crown cost, with approx 30 minutes to one hour + of labor on full contour/veneered buccal/facial only........Also have the ability to mill pfm wax coping faster, even with the design time, with no touch up to the margins most of the time, less metal finishing, less waste in grinding, compared to hand waxing/blocking out dies/painting die spacers/ dipping/ build up of frameworks in wax/and resealing margins .
Labor time to Scan and designing is faster than the labor with hand waxing with all the extra steps-die prep/build up of frame and reseal margins.
I'm going to get away from metal pfms as fast as I can......I don't use NP. Going metal free is the future... I think ? More and more labs are going metal free now days........
Zirconia cost will also go down as our alloy cost keeps going up and down.
My major concern with having a miller inhouse is the finishing time involved and naturally maintenance cost. Some labs are telling me there is hardly any finishing needed......Some are telling me that they can mill full contour zir with minor to very little touch-ups needed. And mill a superior crown compared to using cerec inlab.
I'm basing this idea to go metal free on using full contour zir. and full contour zir with a facial/buccal cutback with very little labor needed, to REPLACE most, if not all pfms. I also do a lot of posterior metal occlusal crowns which could be a saving in crown cost for the doctors ......
Most of my work is bread and butter single unit crowns........
Also planning on using Crystal Diamond which has a lifetime warranty with their HT, HS and Crystal Diamond-full contour ...Diamond has a MPa at 850. which is double that of emax press full contour........
I think full contour zirconia, and facial/buccal veneered will dip into the emax market. I already have emax press and its growing.
Improvements in translucency over the BruxZir are already on the market like Crystal Diamond, and will surely improve even more over time with other companies trying to compete...... Crystal Diamond has already had a 15% translucency improvement over the original that came out.
QUESTIONS:
1.Why should I not buy a cad/cam system now?
2.What brand of cad/cam system to buy/sintering oven also ?
3.Should I only buy a scanner ? and why ?
4.Thoughts on full contour zir and full contour with facial/buccal cutback to veneer......
5.What brand of scanner to buy? axpDental sells 3shape... and (Solutionix) which doesn't require yearly updates after the first year, or cam software updates for the miller.....Will still work after the first year when updates run out and updates can be bought at $1500. should you decide to buy new updates.
Laserdenta yearly updates are about $1200. per year, with the first 2 years free. Scanner will still work without new updates...
3Shape yearly updates $2400. after the 1st. year. Scanner is dead without renewing the updates.
Systems I'm looking at:
Origin 3000, Laserdenta, axpDental- 340i, Digital Dental- Dental Mill
OK, LETS OPENLY TALK CAD/CAM ..........PM'S ALSO WELCOME
ALL COMMENTS GREATLY APPRECIATED/ AND LETS NOT BADLY TRASH CAD/CAM BRANDS.....NO COMMENTS WANTED ON CEREC-INLAB.. SORRY
Charles
Every lab I've talked with is so happy with their system, no matter what brand it is.........
I'm going to buy a cad/cam system, and I'm totally convinced that its not to soon to buy one, even for a small lab.........Actually think the sooner a small lab buys into the digital era the better...assuming you have a good business.......
For those of you that think its crazy to spent up to 100k in a mom and pop lab like myself, plus my son may start working with me soon, please don't hold back with your ideas, suggestions .......
Now down to the down and dirty, nuts and bolts reasons to buy !
It will cost me $100. per day or less for a complete cad/cam system. I also look at it as though I have a new employee in the lab with a aprox $1700 to $2100. per mo. salary.......no matching taxes ! that is very fast and doesn't call in sick..... and allows me to use zirconia to save aprox $4.00 per unit at todays cost , over my average pfm Noble ceramic alloy cost, and turn many pfms/gold crowns/ metal occlusal pfms into full contour zir and to full contour-veneered into a $ 8.00 coping only cost ,or $12.00 to $14. frame/ crown cost, with approx 30 minutes to one hour + of labor on full contour/veneered buccal/facial only........Also have the ability to mill pfm wax coping faster, even with the design time, with no touch up to the margins most of the time, less metal finishing, less waste in grinding, compared to hand waxing/blocking out dies/painting die spacers/ dipping/ build up of frameworks in wax/and resealing margins .
Labor time to Scan and designing is faster than the labor with hand waxing with all the extra steps-die prep/build up of frame and reseal margins.
I'm going to get away from metal pfms as fast as I can......I don't use NP. Going metal free is the future... I think ? More and more labs are going metal free now days........
Zirconia cost will also go down as our alloy cost keeps going up and down.
My major concern with having a miller inhouse is the finishing time involved and naturally maintenance cost. Some labs are telling me there is hardly any finishing needed......Some are telling me that they can mill full contour zir with minor to very little touch-ups needed. And mill a superior crown compared to using cerec inlab.
I'm basing this idea to go metal free on using full contour zir. and full contour zir with a facial/buccal cutback with very little labor needed, to REPLACE most, if not all pfms. I also do a lot of posterior metal occlusal crowns which could be a saving in crown cost for the doctors ......
Most of my work is bread and butter single unit crowns........
Also planning on using Crystal Diamond which has a lifetime warranty with their HT, HS and Crystal Diamond-full contour ...Diamond has a MPa at 850. which is double that of emax press full contour........
I think full contour zirconia, and facial/buccal veneered will dip into the emax market. I already have emax press and its growing.
Improvements in translucency over the BruxZir are already on the market like Crystal Diamond, and will surely improve even more over time with other companies trying to compete...... Crystal Diamond has already had a 15% translucency improvement over the original that came out.
QUESTIONS:
1.Why should I not buy a cad/cam system now?
2.What brand of cad/cam system to buy/sintering oven also ?
3.Should I only buy a scanner ? and why ?
4.Thoughts on full contour zir and full contour with facial/buccal cutback to veneer......
5.What brand of scanner to buy? axpDental sells 3shape... and (Solutionix) which doesn't require yearly updates after the first year, or cam software updates for the miller.....Will still work after the first year when updates run out and updates can be bought at $1500. should you decide to buy new updates.
Laserdenta yearly updates are about $1200. per year, with the first 2 years free. Scanner will still work without new updates...
3Shape yearly updates $2400. after the 1st. year. Scanner is dead without renewing the updates.
Systems I'm looking at:
Origin 3000, Laserdenta, axpDental- 340i, Digital Dental- Dental Mill
OK, LETS OPENLY TALK CAD/CAM ..........PM'S ALSO WELCOME
ALL COMMENTS GREATLY APPRECIATED/ AND LETS NOT BADLY TRASH CAD/CAM BRANDS.....NO COMMENTS WANTED ON CEREC-INLAB.. SORRY
Charles
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