Asiga max tray life with pac-dent titan

[Seth Barton]

Hi friends,
I just got an asiga max for printing all-on-4 temps. It was working beautifully for a few weeks, still is, I think, but I started to get some failures a couple days ago from one resin tray. The prints are sticking to the bottom. I've only used .12 of a liter, but I think I've worn out the fep already.
What's been your guys experience with titan in an asiga max? Is that all I can expect from one tray?
I'll be calling asiga today, but I'm switching out trays with that resin to see if that's the problem.

Thanks.

 

[tuyere]

1). Re-zero the build platform. This is always your first remedy for almost any outright print failures. At least half the time it'll work.

2) The FEP will never stop being non-stick, even if you've torn it to shreds. It's literally Teflon. The FEP fails, for our purposes, when it has a hole in it or very deep stretched dents, you don't typically get too much sticking. If the bottom of the tray is really ****ed up and pebbled with damage, you can get parts adhering from a purely mechanical anchoring, but that's very rare, usually the prints just won't take at all in those cases, you get endless approach errors. Empty the tray and inspect the bottom, see what condition it's in.
IME prints that fail to stick to the build plate are usually because the base layers are underexposed, or because the supports being used aren't sufficient to resist the peel-off forces. There's a couple different ways to tackle this, but because it's a brand-new printer it's not gonna involve the exposure intensity dropping off, which is good because a new light engine is $$$ (but they almost never fail on the Max, ime, so that's not really somethin gyou have to lose sleep over).
As always, post pictures of the print failures- if they're still on the FEP, drain and filter the resin and clean the print remnant in place so you can get a good look at what's going on.

 

[Seth Barton]

Thanks for the reply. Calibrating was my first step. It didn't seem to help. The build is sticking to the plate just fine, it looks like it may be failing just after the supports connect to the bridge, usually in the posterior sections. One side, the other, or both sometimes.
Maybe I'll need to increase the supports back there? The default support parameters already seem like almost a solid block of material! But there may be something there I can improve on.
I'll get some pics if it happens again.
Called asiga technical assistance, no answer. I guess I'll have to use their on line service ticket.

 

[Andrew Priddy]

it also helps to warm titan up

 

[mightymouse]

it also helps to warm titan up

What’s your best method for hearting up resin before use.

 

[Seth Barton]

it also helps to warm titan up

I kinda wish I waited for the asiga ultra. It has a infrared heater below the resin tank. I had to get something pretty quick though, I had a lot of temps to make, and my phrosen was giving me trouble.
I run the heater in the printing room up pretty high when I'm printing, it becomes a sweat box in there! But I think it helps loosen up the resin.

I didn't share this in my first post, but I have a theory that this resin with ceramic particles in it causes abrasion to the membrane as the build plate squeezes the resin against it, making the resin stick and causing failures after a while. I had to change the fep on my phrosen every week, even though it looked fine.

 

[Andrew Priddy]

What’s your best method for hearting up resin before use.

we warm the build plate on a heating pad. the lab is also kept fairly warm and consistent, if it weren't i would add an internal heater

 

[Car 54]

we warm the build plate on a heating pad. the lab is also kept fairly warm and consistent, if it weren't i would add an internal heater

As far as heating up the build plate, a small hair dryer works great, too. I set the build plate tipped on its long edge, and lay the hair dryer on the counter in front of it, start setting up the resin tank and in about 2 minutes it's ready to go.

 

[Smilestyler]

Asiga tech support reset the default internal temperature for my max to 34*C. I think it is only adjusting the thermostat to determine how much heat is exhausted (not a heater)
Would this be as effective?

 

[tuyere]

Thanks for the reply. Calibrating was my first step. It didn't seem to help. The build is sticking to the plate just fine, it looks like it may be failing just after the supports connect to the bridge, usually in the posterior sections. One side, the other, or both sometimes.
Maybe I'll need to increase the supports back there? The default support parameters already seem like almost a solid block of material! But there may be something there I can improve on.
I'll get some pics if it happens again.
Called asiga technical assistance, no answer. I guess I'll have to use their on line service ticket.

I overlooked that it's Titan, any of the nanoceramic resins need exceptional supports because of how viscous the resin is. If it's failing at the connection point to the model the problem is definitely undersupporting. Try increasing support head diameter, or alternately including a few sprues or very heavy supports spread out across the model, just a couple- they will provide the mechanical strength to tie the part into the raft/build plate securely, the rest of the supports just provide nucleation points for the model to grow and be supported from. You'll need to manually clean up the heavy support points, but if there are just a few it isn't a big deal, not compared to cleaning up a whole parts' worth of heavy support blemishes.

 

[Seth Barton]

I overlooked that it's Titan, any of the nanoceramic resins need exceptional supports because of how viscous the resin is. If it's failing at the connection point to the model the problem is definitely undersupporting. Try increasing support head diameter, or alternately including a few sprues or very heavy supports spread out across the model, just a couple- they will provide the mechanical strength to tie the part into the raft/build plate securely, the rest of the supports just provide nucleation points for the model to grow and be supported from. You'll need to manually clean up the heavy support points, but if there are just a few it isn't a big deal, not compared to cleaning up a whole parts' worth of heavy support blemishes.

Thanks for that! Good input.
I noticed asiga uses a number of those larger supports. I'll try adding some where I'm seeing failures and see how it goes. It seems that the default support setting ads those kind of randomly?

 

[tuyere]

I've never seen that, it only gives you the supports you ask it for, dimensionally, with the exception of smaller-diameter supports where larger ones aren't possible, like for minor model-to-model supports, or supports that terminate so close to the build platform that the normal tip geometries aren't possible.

How high above the bed are you locating models?

 

[Seth Barton]

2mm. I believe that's their recommended height.
I'll nest a case and post a Pic. There might be something obvious to you guys that I'm missing.
I did have success once I changed out my resin tray, but I've only run one print in that.

 

[Foggy_in_RI]

Just FYI- I don't have experience with Titan but I thought I remembered seeing a suggestion about heating the material up prior to adding it to the resin tray (when using a printer without a heater).

Something along the lines of sitting the bottle in hot water.

 

[tuyere]

2mm. I believe that's their recommended height.
I'll nest a case and post a Pic. There might be something obvious to you guys that I'm missing.
I did have success once I changed out my resin tray, but I've only run one print in that.

Try 5mm, we had more luck with that. 2mm is the bare minimum, your supports probably aren't forming correctly because they need more than 2mm to form the attaching cone. We don't print anything at 2mm, 3mm is the lowest we go. A higher print height also makes the supports stronger, as the suction/lift load is distributed across more material, and there's more latitude for flexing without breaking.



RE: heating, try one of those PTC silicone heating pads, like the kind you use for seedlings or brewing tubs. I had an eye to building a tiny little preheat 'oven' sized for a single Max tray, using one of those PTC heating pads on the bottom, but I haven't run enough Titan to bother.

 

[Seth Barton]

Try 5mm, we had more luck with that. 2mm is the bare minimum, your supports probably aren't forming correctly because they need more than 2mm to form the attaching cone. We don't print anything at 2mm, 3mm is the lowest we go. A higher print height also makes the supports stronger, as the suction/lift load is distributed across more material, and there's more latitude for flexing without breaking.



RE: heating, try one of those PTC silicone heating pads, like the kind you use for seedlings or brewing tubs. I had an eye to building a tiny little preheat 'oven' sized for a single Max tray, using one of those PTC heating pads on the bottom, but I haven't run enough Titan to bother.

Awesome recommendation! Thanks, I'll increase the build height. I'll bet you're right, I angle the bridges with the posterior at the lowest point, which is where they're failing.

As for the heater, if you have the black asiga tray storage boxes, i imagine you could put that right on the heating pad. Boom, instant oven!
I'll give it a try.

 

[ztech]

I would look for a way to heat the resin and the build plate. Many of the manufacturers recommend 30C or above for their resin. I created a heater for my D4KPro using a small heater, and a thermostatically controlled switch. I start it 15-20 minutes prior to first print and haven't had a failed print since.

 

[Seth Barton]

Thanks Z. I appreciate the recommendation!
Thanks to everyone who answered.
I haven't had any time to run prints since posting this, but I feel well armed with solutions if I run into more problems!