Are Titanium Temp Abutments Suitable to make a Screw Retained Zirconia Crown?

JohnWilson

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What soft tissue material is that John ? Is it scannable ?


Its zhermack rigid. yes its scannable, the trick is to make sure after you clean the model. I use a tooth brush and denatured alcohol to eliminate any of the paint on separator that often leaves a shiny surface.

It carves so sweet with a cross cut carbide and allows for true knowledge of compression unlike a bunch of the softer material.

At least thats my take on it.
 
JohnWilson

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Just have in mind guys, temp abutments might have different connection to implants, a loose connection lets say, because some dentists use it for immediate loading, and incase of any excessive force, the abutment will become loose and break, and the implant will stay in place.

I have never heard of this and actually makes little sense. Any immediate load you want NO micro movement I would be very interested in knowing where you heard of this and which system it applies too.

Here is a good page thats shows LIFETIME warranty. now what does lifetime mean ????

https://www.nobelbiocare.com/us/en/home/products-and-solutions/prosthetics/temporary-abutments.html
 
zero_zero

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Its zhermack rigid. yes its scannable, the trick is to make sure after you clean the model. I use a tooth brush and denatured alcohol to eliminate any of the paint on separator that often leaves a shiny surface.

It carves so sweet with a cross cut carbide and allows for true knowledge of compression unlike a bunch of the softer material.

At least thats my take on it.

Thanks, ordered a kit today...will give a try next week. Been using Gingitech for ever and getting tired of it.


I have never heard of this and actually makes little sense. Any immediate load you want NO micro movement I would be very interested in knowing where you heard of this and which system it applies too.

.....................l

I never heard that either...any loose fitting connection of the interfaces should be avoided as it could destroy the implant interface by ramming in it...
 
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Been using zhermack for some time now(both rigid and soft) I've been very happy with the results every time, never have been disappointed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.
 
JMN

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Just have in mind guys, temp abutments might have different connection to implants, a loose connection lets say, because some dentists use it for immediate loading, and incase of any excessive force, the abutment will become loose and break, and the implant will stay in place.
Huh?

If there is anything you don't want in immediate loading it would be what you describe. If anything is going to give, it'll be the screw, as they are all designed. This it to keep what you decribe from occuring. This failure mode is precisely what the implant companies are claiming the cad/cam systems do cause, to the point of taking out 1/2 and full page ads beating the FDA approved software drum.
Unless there's something I'm missing in reading your post, it looks like you inverted your information, please tell me I'm wrong if I am, but I would really want to see documentation on that before repeating it.

G'day
 
Sevan P

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I personally don't see why you couldn't, but on the other hand glidewell Ti bases for Zr abutments (final) are only 56.00 with screw shipped, well at least to me cause im only an hour away from them. So why not use the proper library and make a final type crown, even if it is temporary the cost is not that great. Now on the other hand Sraumann variobasr Ti interfaces are 135.00, completely kills the deal as a temp but not as a final restoration. It really depends on the system you use, talk to the Doc and tell him as it is. I found this helpful for them to make a decision once you give them two or three options and price points.
 
rkm rdt

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This issue should be asked to an implant rep or dr during their lecture.
 
H.Ross

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Sorry couldn't reply to you immediately due to time difference. I am talking in general, not mentioning a certain implant system since many have different platforms and connections. I was unable to provide a proper study, but I've experienced something with Megagen dental implants (reputable Korean brand). They have Temp abutments and Permanent abutments. One of the features in Permanent Ti abutments is "Cold welding", it works according to the following:

1- Place the hex/ non-hex (engaging/non-engaging) abutment on implant
2- Screw the abutment over implant
3- Unscrew the abutment over implant and remove the screw
4- Try removing the abutment with your hands by pulling, it won't move or come out because of the cold welding feature.
5- It will get removed once your place a threaded Megagen screw driver and pull the abutment out.

This feature isn't there in Megagen's Ti Temp abutments and I've tried them my self on a dummy implant.

Connection might not be the same in performance, though the same screw, implant and analogs are used.

Here is more details on whats called Fuse abutment, It will help you understand the concept I am talking about. http://www.megagenids.com/sw/swchan...957/28023/04FuseAbutment-singlepageformat.pdf

And regarding cold welding, I haven't been able to find something online. but I can make a video for you guys.


Sorry if I didn't explain myself very well but let me rephrase what I said.

1- Ti Temp abutments might have different way to connect, and implants like Megagen and 3I (and maybe many other systems) designed their Temp abutments slightly different than permanent
2- Temp abutments have extra retention platform to allow composite or acrylic engage to it for more stability, and on Cad/Cam sometimes the software will detect the following as undercut and we might end up have a poor or loose Zr abutment over our Temp Ti
3- Let's avoid the word break and use "snap off". due to connection differences in some systems, if the screw ever went loose, this will allow the temp restoration to snap off, so it doesn't effect the implant stability.
4- Ti Temp and called Temporary for a reason. We might not acquire precise study on each system but let's use them for what they are supposed to.
 
cadfan

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I personally don't see why you couldn't, but on the other hand glidewell Ti bases for Zr abutments (final) are only 56.00 with screw shipped, well at least to me cause im only an hour away from them. So why not use the proper library and make a final type crown, even if it is temporary the cost is not that great. Now on the other hand Sraumann variobasr Ti interfaces are 135.00, completely kills the deal as a temp but not as a final restoration. It really depends on the system you use, talk to the Doc and tell him as it is. I found this helpful for them to make a decision once you give them two or three options and price points.


lot of money for Straumann for a bit shipping i pay 69 Euro and 5 for the marker original from Straumann maybe less competitors and crap F.A
 
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JohnWilson

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Your cold weld theory is not valid, the design of the MAJORITY of morse taper fixtures is to exploit this. Straumann was the first but every tapered internal hex fixture utilize similar properties. NON eng abutments will never fully cold weld as the extension is shorten to allow for draw. Get your micrometer out and measure the difference in abutments and your eyes will open. They are identical, what can be different is the material some companies use. Some of the KOREAN copy fixtures and 3rd party solutions are now using CHROME in their abutment selection and this most definitely effects the cold weld between the fixture and the abutment. The differences in how the taper effects this phenomenon is hex height some knock offs use a shorter anti rotational internal hex and the taper wall engages and the screw pulls the fixture down into this. The entire bash on cad bases have more to do with how the third parties get around the patent and slightly make a different approach and that the WALLS are not perfectly in contact with the fixture.

As for the inaccuracy you are referring to with Scanning and die spacer there are MANY ways to eliminate this and make a true machine fit.

The reason for this thread is not to argue but to share insight and hopefully you realize I am not trying to be argumentative. The OP was asking because invariably there is a certain fixture he can not obtain a CAD base for and is looking for an alternative. If I was a betting man he is restoring an Astra EV and is looking for a path. He has not been back to the thread so we may never know.
 
H.Ross

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Your cold weld theory is not valid, the design of the MAJORITY of morse taper fixtures is to exploit this. Straumann was the first but every tapered internal hex fixture utilize similar properties. NON eng abutments will never fully cold weld as the extension is shorten to allow for draw. Get your micrometer out and measure the difference in abutments and your eyes will open. They are identical, what can be different is the material some companies use. Some of the KOREAN copy fixtures and 3rd party solutions are now using CHROME in their abutment selection and this most definitely effects the cold weld between the fixture and the abutment. The differences in how the taper effects this phenomenon is hex height some knock offs use a shorter anti rotational internal hex and the taper wall engages and the screw pulls the fixture down into this. The entire bash on cad bases have more to do with how the third parties get around the patent and slightly make a different approach and that the WALLS are not perfectly in contact with the fixture.

As for the inaccuracy you are referring to with Scanning and die spacer there are MANY ways to eliminate this and make a true machine fit.

The reason for this thread is not to argue but to share insight and hopefully you realize I am not trying to be argumentative. The OP was asking because invariably there is a certain fixture he can not obtain a CAD base for and is looking for an alternative. If I was a betting man he is restoring an Astra EV and is looking for a path. He has not been back to the thread so we may never know.

I have to agree with you, and of course I didn't take it as argument. This forum is all about sharing and learning from each other. I would definitely revise my statement and do more research, and now I understand cold welding more and thanks to you.

If you or any of the moderators felt my posts on this thread might confuse new readers, kindly feel free to delete them.
 
JMN

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I have to agree with you, and of course I didn't take it as argument. This forum is all about sharing and learning from each other. I would definitely revise my statement and do more research, and now I understand cold welding more and thanks to you.

If you or any of the moderators felt my posts on this thread might confuse new readers, kindly feel free to delete them.
I want to assure you that I was discussing the points, not fighting with you. You're still kinda new, and feisty enough you need to be kept. ;)
 
JohnWilson

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lot of money for Straumann for a bit shipping i pay 69 Euro and 5 for the marker original from Straumann maybe less competitors and crap F.A

Thats a great price
 
H.Ross

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I want to assure you that I was discussing the points, not fighting with you. You're still kinda new, and feisty enough you need to be kept. ;)

I never took it as fighting lol. Many of you guys are older than me in age and professional career, mutual respect will always be a present between us.
 
cadfan

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@ John Wilson yes good price but realistic Camlog has the same and all Medentika and NT stuff and how ever their name is are around 49 with screw and they didnt bought the M company because of their bad quallity so its more a F.A and competitor problem. But Instradent is now in US too we see if the pressure and new upcoming preforms help.
 
JohnWilson

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@ John Wilson yes good price but realistic Camlog has the same and all Medentika and NT stuff and how ever their name is are around 49 with screw and they didnt bought the M company because of their bad quallity so its more a F.A and competitor problem. But Instradent is now in US too we see if the pressure and new upcoming preforms help.

Here is the thing in the US with all of the negative press being pushed about 3rd party CAD bases its is in my opinion very time sensitive with MANY new CAD bases coming close to being FDA cleared. It isn't coincidence that SIRONA is spending HUGE money advertising their position and STRAUMANN and NOBEL are right behind them.

Here in my lab I have made a complete 180 from my thinking on third party bases and have implemented a policy to use manufacturer specific parts as much as possible. Not because I think it makes any difference what so ever, its because its one additional way to eliminate any finger pointing. We in the past would send out a form that our clients would sign that would request their preference on wether to use 3rd party parts exclusively when possible or to use ONLY implant specific parts. This form was more about saving multiple phone calls and to have a record on file in my lab. What really happened is it generated a bunch of questions and direct questions to me personally about what I would put in a family members mouth. I still stand by the fact that the parts that are being sold here and across the world are not the cause for any issues with treatment planning and the vast majority of finger pointing by implant companies is exclusively not about the safety and betterment of the restoration/patient. its all about MONEY.

Poor placement improper planning are very rarely ever addressed as the cause of screw loosening and studies are constantly being developed to show how 3rd party parts are the cause. Also implant failure in these studies and interface fractures are all a way to sell more parts. It frustrates me but as a businessman I have found its tremendously easier to have your clients make the decisions and opening the line of dialogue as I have outlined has eliminated any finger pointing and makes the responsibility square on their shoulders.

I charge considerably more for manufacturer specific parts, because well they cost more, not because I think its a better product. Your clients when you outline this will most often stay with what you recommend and for this I am excited to see what the new competition for OEM solutions will provide.
 
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queenp

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John re: the Zhermack rigid I have 2 questions...

do you use an auto mixer with it? we do and i think i'm wasting a lot of material...but it's convenient.

does the material need to be refrigerated? the set time is rather slow, it's slumpy for too long and I need to babysit it... and i wonder if it's because we are refrigerating it
 
JohnWilson

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John re: the Zhermack rigid I have 2 questions...

do you use an auto mixer with it? we do and i think i'm wasting a lot of material...but it's convenient.

does the material need to be refrigerated? the set time is rather slow, it's slumpy for too long and I need to babysit it... and i wonder if it's because we are refrigerating it

We use the tips as well as dispensed and hand mixed but I prefer to use the tips. Truthfully the amount of product waste in my eyes does not equal out to a concern for me. I do how everdo my implant models in batches and can dispense 6 models at a time with one tip so it much less than if your doing one or two at a time with waste.

We do not refrigerate the product and you are correct this is definitely retarding the setting phase.
 
H.Ross

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We use the tips as well as dispensed and hand mixed but I prefer to use the tips. Truthfully the amount of product waste in my eyes does not equal out to a concern for me. I do how everdo my implant models in batches and can dispense 6 models at a time with one tip so it much less than if your doing one or two at a time with waste.

We do not refrigerate the product and you are correct this is definitely retarding the setting phase.

I do the same thing. btw, how do you stop the material from flowing to neighbour teeth? or do you end up cutting the mess after its rigid?
 
JMN

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I do the same thing. btw, how do you stop the material from flowing to neighbour teeth? or do you end up cutting the mess after its rigid?
Off topic by miles...

H.Ross, I've been fighting with myself not to call you Perot since you came on here... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Perot
Sorry, low impulse control.

please continue with your normally scheduled diversions
 
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