Appended CAD Design Moved?

[Sarah Downs]

Same day, different issue....

We have a full-mouth diagnostic case that we designed in 3Shape all nicely and everything, and all we have to do is make models for it. The way I usually do this is to Copy and Append the CAD design and take the scans out of that, then make a fresh case, select printed models in the order form, and pull in the Appended CAD designs from the copied case, so everything stays nice and neat.

This time, though, when we copy and appended, the CAD design actually shifted somehow. This hasn't happened before... the only thing I can think that we did differently is that we changed the vertical using the virtual articulator and it didn't save the adjustment we made, instead smashing the design into the area of the model it would be on if we hadn't changed the vertical. That's just my theory though. Anyone seen this before and have any ideas?

I'm saving "add the model work to the original design" as a last resort because 3Shape is a fickle gal and I'm afraid of it doing something weird and losing the design completely. It's also full-mouth, like I said, and verrrrry slow moving on our computer. :/

Thanks all!

 

[Sarah Downs]

Update: Tried everything I know to try. Messed with the anatomy for reuse, adjusted the vertical back down to 0 in the original design file, added model work to it... nothing is working. The design is crooked every time. Either that, or it won't spit out model work and instead just spits out the preparation arch and teeth separately (even when I uncheck subtract from model in Model Builder). Not having much luck getting help with Argen tech support, either.

I always seem to ask that complicated questions, don't I?

 

[CoolHandLuke]

you can try realigning with external software such as meshmixer and then continuing.

 

[Sevan P]

Have you tried to copy and append it again? Is it on a unsectioned cast? Try to make a standard copy and change order from model to digital model and model type to order then run through design and go straight into MB. But beware, do all spline cutting in design, if you touch spline in MB your design will vanish! In MB you really need to click next all the way through and uncheck remove design from model.

 

[DentalTechTips]

LITERALLY had this happen to me last week for the first time on a printed diagnostic case!!

It's because the incisal pin opening articulator value was changed during the design. What you need to do is close the incisal pin settings AND THEN go to the first tab and LOCK the new position.

I must've copied and appended 20 different times with a bunch of variations and this was the solution. Not at the lab right now, but I can snap some pictures of what I mean tomorrow morning if you would like.

Good luck! hope this helps

 

[tomas]

we have the same problem sometimes. the software cannot be remembered the design or the design is error,

 

[Sarah Downs]

Was able to pull a few tricks with Meshmixer.... it was unsectioned and I did try to copy and append a number of times after trying different things. But! I got it to work. It was aggravating, but it worked.

Thanks for the tips, everyone!

 

[Sarah Downs]

LITERALLY had this happen to me last week for the first time on a printed diagnostic case!!

It's because the incisal pin opening articulator value was changed during the design. What you need to do is close the incisal pin settings AND THEN go to the first tab and LOCK the new position.

I must've copied and appended 20 different times with a bunch of variations and this was the solution. Not at the lab right now, but I can snap some pictures of what I mean tomorrow morning if you would like.

Good luck! hope this helps

I found a pretty backwards solution to this, but if this worked for you, I'd love to see some pictures of exactly what you're talking about if you don't mind! If there's something easier than converting stls of the teeth and stitching things together in another software, I'd love to know! I kinda see what you're saying but I'm less familiar with the design software than the scanning or model building.

 

[Wannabe]

Hi everyone! I am new here and quite new with 3shape. I am having exactly the same problem and still unable to fix it. I did make adjustments in the virtual articulator so that may have been the culprit as DentalTechTips mentioned. Although, I am almost certain that I locked and saved the changes. The thing is, I also saved it for default setting in the window that prompted me to choose. I wonder if that was another possible cause. Anyway, Sarah, would you be so kind and share the details of how you resolved the issue? I’m not familiar with Meshmixer but it sounds like a useful tool. Would also love to here suggestions or ideas anyone may have.
Thanks guys.
(I hope I’m posting this in the right spot.)

 

[JMN]

Hi everyone! I am new here and quite new with 3shape. I am having exactly the same problem and still unable to fix it. I did make adjustments in the virtual articulator so that may have been the culprit as DentalTechTips mentioned. Although, I am almost certain that I locked and saved the changes. The thing is, I also saved it for default setting in the window that prompted me to choose. I wonder if that was another possible cause. Anyway, Sarah, would you be so kind and share the details of how you resolved the issue? I’m not familiar with Meshmixer but it sounds like a useful tool. Would also love to here suggestions or ideas anyone may have.
Thanks guys.
(I hope I’m posting this in the right spot.)

To notify someone they are being talked to/about in a post, put the @ in front of their username.
Like: @Wannabe paging @Sarah Downs
Notified you and her both.

And Greetings Earthling! Welcome!

 

[Wannabe]

@JMN, Thanks for the tip and the warm welcome! I’m still learning how to navigate here so I very much appreciate all the tips I can get

 

[Sarah Downs]

Hello Wannabe!

The way I went about it:

1. Download Meshmixer. It's free, and relatively easy to use.

2. Find your case, right click and advanced -> explore order. Inside the CAD folder you'll find the teeth you designed in DCM format. Open all of those and they'll pop up in the 3Shape model viewer window. Don't close the window; keep it up with the teeth still in it. You might also want to copy these files somewhere easy to find, too, like a folder on your desktop.

3. Next, go into your Scans folder. Whichever arch is your working arch (upper and/or lower) you'll find a couple of different versions. One should be the unaltered scan, which is the incorrect position. The other will be the scan that's had the vertical altered. Open them both and check them against the position of the teeth you still have open in your 3Shape viewer. One should line up correctly. Copy the one that lines up to your easy-access desktop folder.

4. This next step kinda depends on how you originally set up your order. If you designed individual teeth, this will take longer than if you made a bridge. It's specifically for issues like this that I always set diagnostics up as bridges if I can. You'll want to make a dummy file with a single unit in 3Shape with as many different scans selected as possible in the work order (working arch, antagonist, preprep and double prep). Name it something temporary, save it, right click it and hit "import scans," then go through your easy to find folder of scans you copied and import them, teeth, working arch and all. Position doesn't matter; 3Shape remembers the XYZ coordinates regardless of which scan you're importing. You're doing this to convert the files from DCM to STL. You might need to reset the case or make more than one to convert all of them if you have a bunch of individual teeth, but after you've imported the scans, right click the case again, go to advanced -> export scan. Save the files somewhere easy to find again and MAKE SURE you save them as STLs in the dropdown menu at the bottom.

5. Open Meshmixer. Take the teeth scans and working arch scan you converted into STLs and drag them and drop them into the Meshmixer window. Hit ctrl+A to select everything. On the left there will be an option to "combine." Boom. Solid model with the teeth. Just go up to menu again and export as STL. From here you have a file you should be able to set up in 3Shape model builder normally.

This is a pretty involved process, but it's the one that always works reliably for me. If you need any clarification, lemme know! Ganbatte.

 

[zero_zero]

1. Download Meshmixer. It's free, and relatively easy to use.

2. Find your case, right click and advanced -> explore order. Inside the CAD folder you'll find the teeth you designed in DCM format. Open all of those and they'll pop up in the 3Shape model viewer window. Don't close the window; keep it up with the teeth still in it. You might also want to copy these files somewhere easy to find, too, like a folder on your desktop.

3. Next, go into your Scans folder. Whichever arch is your working arch (upper and/or lower) you'll find a couple of different versions. One should be the unaltered scan, which is the incorrect position. The other will be the scan that's had the vertical altered. Open them both and check them against the position of the teeth you still have open in your 3Shape viewer. One should line up correctly. Copy the one that lines up to your easy-access desktop folder.

4. This next step kinda depends on how you originally set up your order. If you designed individual teeth, this will take longer than if you made a bridge. It's specifically for issues like this that I always set diagnostics up as bridges if I can. You'll want to make a dummy file with a single unit in 3Shape with as many different scans selected as possible in the work order (working arch, antagonist, preprep and double prep). Name it something temporary, save it, right click it and hit "import scans," then go through your easy to find folder of scans you copied and import them, teeth, working arch and all. Position doesn't matter; 3Shape remembers the XYZ coordinates regardless of which scan you're importing. You're doing this to convert the files from DCM to STL. You might need to reset the case or make more than one to convert all of them if you have a bunch of individual teeth, but after you've imported the scans, right click the case again, go to advanced -> export scan. Save the files somewhere easy to find again and MAKE SURE you save them as STLs in the dropdown menu at the bottom.

5. Open Meshmixer. Take the teeth scans and working arch scan you converted into STLs and drag them and drop them into the Meshmixer window. Hit ctrl+A to select everything. On the left there will be an option to "combine." Boom. Solid model with the teeth. Just go up to menu again and export as STL. From here you have a file you should be able to set up in 3Shape model builder normally.

This is a pretty involved process, but it's the one that always works reliably for me. If you need any clarification, lemme know! Ganbatte.

6. Or just get exocad, then you can do all that with a click to two...lol..

 

[Wannabe]

@Sarah Downs Wow! Thank you so much Sarah for taking the time to explain everything in detail for me. It is very clear and incredibly informative! I’m going to give it a shot now.

 

[Wannabe]

@zero_zero I would most certainly try that if I had extra change. My pocket is still empty from the 3shape license! lol

 

[Sarah Downs]

6. Or just get exocad, then you can do all that with a click to two...lol..

Just rub it in why doncha?

 

[Wannabe]

Hello Wannabe!

The way I went about it:

1. Download Meshmixer. It's free, and relatively easy to use.

2. Find your case, right click and advanced -> explore order. Inside the CAD folder you'll find the teeth you designed in DCM format. Open all of those and they'll pop up in the 3Shape model viewer window. Don't close the window; keep it up with the teeth still in it. You might also want to copy these files somewhere easy to find, too, like a folder on your desktop.

3. Next, go into your Scans folder. Whichever arch is your working arch (upper and/or lower) you'll find a couple of different versions. One should be the unaltered scan, which is the incorrect position. The other will be the scan that's had the vertical altered. Open them both and check them against the position of the teeth you still have open in your 3Shape viewer. One should line up correctly. Copy the one that lines up to your easy-access desktop folder.

4. This next step kinda depends on how you originally set up your order. If you designed individual teeth, this will take longer than if you made a bridge. It's specifically for issues like this that I always set diagnostics up as bridges if I can. You'll want to make a dummy file with a single unit in 3Shape with as many different scans selected as possible in the work order (working arch, antagonist, preprep and double prep). Name it something temporary, save it, right click it and hit "import scans," then go through your easy to find folder of scans you copied and import them, teeth, working arch and all. Position doesn't matter; 3Shape remembers the XYZ coordinates regardless of which scan you're importing. You're doing this to convert the files from DCM to STL. You might need to reset the case or make more than one to convert all of them if you have a bunch of individual teeth, but after you've imported the scans, right click the case again, go to advanced -> export scan. Save the files somewhere easy to find again and MAKE SURE you save them as STLs in the dropdown menu at the bottom.

5. Open Meshmixer. Take the teeth scans and working arch scan you converted into STLs and drag them and drop them into the Meshmixer window. Hit ctrl+A to select everything. On the left there will be an option to "combine." Boom. Solid model with the teeth. Just go up to menu again and export as STL. From here you have a file you should be able to set up in 3Shape model builder normally.

This is a pretty involved process, but it's the one that always works reliably for me. If you need any clarification, lemme know! Ganbatte.

@Sarah Downs I'm impressed with the Meshmixer app! Thank you for introducing me to it. I think it may actually help me with another unrelated area too.
Now, back to the current issue. I tried to follow your very well written instructions and not sure where I went wrong. I couldn't export (save) the file to .stl so I couldn't complete the task.
(The scenario of my case is that I did CAD (and generated CAM output) for #s 6-11. They are in 3 pieces. #6 is a single Crown and #s 7-9 and 10-11 are bridges. I now have to do digital waxup for #s 3-5, 12-14, 19-21. I would like to make the CADs #6-11 fuse to their own preparation scan then use the it and same set of scans to do the digital wax up for those other teeth. I started by creating a new order via copy and append CAD to prep and couldn't go far because the CAD did not line up with their Prep scan.) I'm trying to resolve this by following your steps.
I'm certain I got 1) and 2) of your instructions right. From 3) on, not so much...
- In 3),I found three prep scans in the folder, two of which lined up with the CAD restorations- the "Preparation" scan and the "MB Preparation" scan. Not knowing what the MB meant, I took a wild guess and chose the former.
- In 4),I tried different ways to create the dummy order etc. Don't want to bore you guys or embarrass myself. Let's just say I couldn't make it work. So I have a few follow up questions:
1. Create "a dummy file" with a single unit" -Does that mean creating an order via copy and append etc or just a brand new blank order. 2. The "single unit", is that just any tooth or a certain tooth (teeth) in my case? 3. What should the indication be (model unsectioned?) 4."Hit import scans, then go through your easy to find folder of scans you copied and import them, "teeth", working arch and all." I couldn't find an option to import teeth in this step (I'm assuming you mean importing the CAD teeth.) 5. You might need to "reset" the case or make more than one to convert all of them if you have a bunch of individual teeth. How do I know if I have to reset ? Reset to? 6. "MAKE SURE you save them as STLs in the dropdown menu at the bottom" Where is the dropdown menu that has the STL choice? (Please bear with me, my knowledge on this is elementary but trying my best to learn).