Anyone use Argenco 20?

[Artexperience]

Has anyone used this gold noble? Pros? Cons? We have a Dr who wants us to check into a lower gold content noble metal than the one we have in house, Argenco 20 is what he gets from his other lab. He says the one we use is just too expensive. (If he didn't reduce so much tooth structure, or took the time to do a buildup it wouldn't be) But anyways......any thoughts or suggestions? We're concerned it may be too brittle and hard to keep margins fine.

 

[charles007]

If the doctor likes Argenco 20, use it and don't over contour to save on weight. I use Argen's Argenco 46, print and cast, DPM. Argens calls it DPM AG46
A cheaper alternative is Ivoclar Harmony 2 / 2%gold and Noble, with much better coloring than Argens Argenco Y+ with 2% Au.
Bego offers Harmony2 with their DPM if you have a scanner....Haven't tried Argenco 20...

 

[KIM]

An alloy of this specific type is different from most full cast gold alloys (We have one as well called Castell). It's different because it has a higher Palladium and Indium content than a traditional casting alloy. These elements help this alloy have a better color than a traditional 20% Au alloy would. We like to say it "Looks" like a 40% Au alloy but with a lower cost. The trade off with this is that the alloy has a low % of tensile elongation and casting is a bit more tricky. Low tensile elongation translates to burnishability. I see your comments about keeping margins fine.....If you want to burnish the margins, don't plan on doing it with much success with any alloy of this type. Castell is still a pretty popular alloy today but those that use it, no what it does and doesn't do. If cost is a big issue for the doctor, another option is an alloy called "Blaze". It too uses Palladium and Indium to help enhance color (Which reduces burnishability) but has a lower cost due to Au & Pd content. Blaze has only 5% Au and is roughly $100/ozt less than Castell on today's market. If you need any additional information, don't hesitate to PM me.
K

 

[adl]

Whichever alloy you choose to go with,make sure it's 100 percent compatible with your porcelain . And it does not make your job harder because in the end that's more expensive than the alloy itself

 

[charles007]

adl Argenco 20 is an c&b alloy, not ceramic alloy

 

[Artexperience]

If the doctor likes Argenco 20, use it and don't over contour to save on weight. I use Argen's Argenco 46, print and cast, DPM. Argens calls it DPM AG46
A cheaper alternative is Ivoclar Harmony 2 / 2%gold and Noble, with much better coloring than Argens Argenco Y+ with 2% Au.
Bego offers Harmony2 with their DPM if you have a scanner....Haven't tried Argenco 20...

Thanks for the input..........

 

[Artexperience]

An alloy of this specific type is different from most full cast gold alloys (We have one as well called Castell). It's different because it has a higher Palladium and Indium content than a traditional casting alloy. These elements help this alloy have a better color than a traditional 20% Au alloy would. We like to say it "Looks" like a 40% Au alloy but with a lower cost. The trade off with this is that the alloy has a low % of tensile elongation and casting is a bit more tricky. Low tensile elongation translates to burnishability. I see your comments about keeping margins fine.....If you want to burnish the margins, don't plan on doing it with much success with any alloy of this type. Castell is still a pretty popular alloy today but those that use it, no what it does and doesn't do. If cost is a big issue for the doctor, another option is an alloy called "Blaze". It too uses Palladium and Indium to help enhance color (Which reduces burnishability) but has a lower cost due to Au & Pd content. Blaze has only 5% Au and is roughly $100/ozt less than Castell on today's market. If you need any additional information, don't hesitate to PM me.
K

Thank you K

 

[adl]

Fair point Charles, I read more into the post.i thought the bottom line was the price.disregard the porcelain part ,same principles apply

 

[chr1978]

just use Argenco y+. Nice color - easy to polish. Approx. 15-20 dollars for a gram. Our dentists love it.

Palladium: 34.9 %
Silver: 30 %
Indium: 30 %
Zinc: 3 %
Gold: 2 %
Iridium: Less Than 1 %

 

[charles007]

chr1978 no offense but I must let my fellow members know Argenco Y+ sucks in color unless you like pink rosy looking gold crowns. Let Y+ cast gold crowns age over night
on your bench and watch the color change over the next day or 2.... weird ! I used several ounces of Y+ a number of years ago just to offer a low cost Noble gold crown and very disappointed.
Last year I used several ounces on Harmony 2 which has much better color over Y+.

Just ordered an ounce of Jensen's Blaze.... Au 5% Pd 32% Ag32% In 30% Zn 1.0 %
I will post my results tomorrow or Fri morning once I cast 2 gold crowns. Much prefer having 5% gold over 2% for sure !
Bet the price of Blaze is very similar to Y+ Blaze has 3% more Au, a huge Plus, and 2.9% less Pd than Y+

 

[TheLabGuy]

I think Y+ was recently reintroduced within the past couple years to solve those issues. I've been using it since without those problems described above. I do quite a bit of them.

 

[JohnWilson]

Here is the trick, tell you cost conscious clients this, You offer 55% gold for all of your fgc's and stop trying to make inferior alloys to "make do for their cheap ass ness"

Thats what FCZ is for

I cast a ton of Y+ it works it looks like a flipping penny and it shines well if you know how to manipulate it. It doesn't tarnish unless you recast the buttons will less than 70% new alloy or you scorch the hell out of it.

For the last 1.5 years we have not cast any gold in my lab, I am doing argen DPM or Strategy milling and making more money by not catering to the cheap sons of bitches that are looking for something for nothing.

Ok back to my wine

Wilson out!

 

[nvarras]

Cheap ass ness. I need to remember that one. It could get me into trouble though if that little filter between my brain and mouth is malfunctioning.


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[JohnWilson]

Cheap ass ness. I need to remember that one. It could get me into trouble though if that little filter between my brain and mouth is malfunctioning.


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Yeah its amazing when I reread my stuff from wine:30