All ceramic veneers

MrSae

MrSae

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Full Member
Hi to You,

I was told by our technician that there is a method where you layer the ceramic onto a model which is out of investment material. There is no substructure, you just layer the ceramic onto the stumps.

I was not able to find such ceramic material from the manufactures Ivoclar, Dentsply.

Do you have idea about this?
 
Car 54

Car 54

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And this is why they came up with pressed ingots/ceramics, to get away from all the time, labor and any real ability to do add ons without crossing your fingers and hoping that nothing's going to distort or a margin roll, even if you used a low fusing add on kit.

Best thing to do is reprimand that tech for even bringing up the "R" word :)
 
sndmn2

sndmn2

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And this is why they came up with pressed ingots/ceramics, to get away from all the time, labor and any real ability to do add ons without crossing your fingers and hoping that nothing's going to distort or a margin roll, even if you used a low fusing add on kit.

Best thing to do is reprimand that tech for even bringing up the "R" word :)
I never learned refractory technique..I did a load of them on foil for about 15 years.. I wish they would bring back those make-over shows..
 
Car 54

Car 54

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I never learned refractory technique..I did a load of them on foil for about 15 years.. I wish they would bring back those make-over shows..
And I could never get the hang of getting the margins burnished properly, especially if the Dr had sharp corner and edges (my chipping them). Also, of anticipating the final shade with a silver background. You really had to trust and know your porcelain system in knowing what it was going to look like once you took the foil out.

Who was the foil guru back then, Jason Kim, who used a orange stick to burnish the margins in?

Did you ever do any inlays or onlays using refractory?
 
rkm rdt

rkm rdt

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I did everything on refractories since the days of optec. The fit once dialed in was exceptional.
The ability to create thin veneers was the best advantage. I learned a lot about the properties of porcelain doing refractories.
 
sndmn2

sndmn2

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And I could never get the hang of getting the margins burnished properly, especially if the Dr had sharp corner and edges (my chipping them). Also, of anticipating the final shade with a silver background. You really had to trust and know your porcelain system in knowing what it was going to look like once you took the foil out.

Who was the foil guru back then, Jason Kim, who used a orange stick to burnish the margins in?

Did you ever do any inlays or onlays using refractory?
I did a couple inlays but that was it. For foil its a 3 or 4 bake process. 1st fire was od, And of course the foil would always warp when you pulled it off. Next firing was body. And again the foil would warp when pulling it off. But when s wedging with your hands the next time and doing a final build it was usually stiff enough at that point for the foil not to warp when you pulled it off. . Sometimes I did a 3rd body bake before the final firing. I use to throw them in cold water before trying to pull the foil. For some reason I always felt it made it easier that way. It's been a couple years since I have actually done one.
 
zero_zero

zero_zero

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I'm too young for this...what did I miss ? Vroam
 
doug

doug

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I did a lot of refractory veneers. Started with Optec. I wish I had learned how to do foil veneers, they seemd to be so much faster to fabricate. We used the Unipin die system with made it a lot more fun.
 
JMN

JMN

Christian Member
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We used "Bego Stumpf Material" as the refractory model. Can't even find it on Bego's website now.
I'm sure to be spelling Material wrong.
 
F

FASTFNGR

Active Member
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Hi to You,

I was told by our technician that there is a method where you layer the ceramic onto a model which is out of investment material. There is no substructure, you just layer the ceramic onto the stumps.

I was not able to find such ceramic material from the manufactures Ivoclar, Dentsply.

Do you have idea about this?
PJC porcelain jacket crown. We did that for a long time before pressing.
 
user name

user name

Well-Known Member
Donator
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Hi to You,

I was told by our technician that there is a method where you layer the ceramic onto a model which is out of investment material. There is no substructure, you just layer the ceramic onto the stumps.

I was not able to find such ceramic material from the manufactures Ivoclar, Dentsply.

Do you have idea about this?
Normal model, trim dies and paint spacer.
Duplicate with silicon.
Pour refractory in to silicon and place Zirconia die pins.
Lubricate with separator and pour normal base.
Carefully remove from silicon.
bake porcelain on refractory dies, contour and glaze.
Carefully devest and seat on master model.
If you need to add a contact, use peg putty.
 
JMN

JMN

Christian Member
Staff member
Full Member
I had a slightly different version:
A:
If contact was broken:
Pour, pin, base, saw like normal. Except using a ceramic pin on the die(s)

Vaseline the base well, Lightcure tray material on the tube to make it mate only one way to the base.( Always had a few measuring devices from investment or stone lying around for such. Could get more than one die per tube if careful.)

Put a tiny bit of wire wax/utiltity wax between the tube and the die at the base on the lingual of the die. This becomes the pouring sprue.
Pour duplication silicone.

Remove tube with silicone and die from base. Remove die and wax from tube. Cut hole in tube where wax was.

Re vaseline base if needed. Put new ceramic pin in base.
Secure tube to base

Pour refractory material into hole creating a new refractory die and the material captures the pin.

Remove tube with new die, grind off sprue.

Now refractory die can be used for fab and originial stone die can be used for delivery check and they are interchangeable on the base and in the modle. No need to worry about chipping the refractory while mounting for articulation.

A solid model was also made by 2nd pour of impression

B/No broken contact:
Same except the entire area to be venneered would be duped, it would be supported in the base by 2 ceramic pins and it would be sawn at the IP of the first non-involved teeth.

Why:
The refractory material is hard on the furnace to degas. The less of it there is, the less wear on the furnace. Our protocols let the furnace need less repair/replace and less preventative maintenance. We had one furnace for the specific and sole use of degassing copings and refractory material. It kept the 'work' furnace freer of impurities and reduced headaches in tracking down problems when they did happen. Less variables, less possible causes.
 
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