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    AG Ceramill users unite!

    Discussion in 'Dental-CAM' started by Affinity, Feb 12, 2014.

    1. Affinity
      Question

      Affinity Well-Known Member Full Member

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      So I recently entered the world of milling and since there is not much info on the forum for Ceramill users I thought I would start a thread for all things AG Ceramill.

      First question I have is the obvious one: who is using a 98mm fixture and how do you set it up in the CAM? I know that AG sold fixtures as a beta test but they deny it as a rumor.. also the original motion had a round fixture on it, ive seen pics on google. *** has to know more about this!

      Also any thoughts on materials, techniques, rants would be great..
       
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    2. grantoz
      Amused

      grantoz Well-Known Member Full Member

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      You need to play hard with these guys to get any info.They have been difficult to deal with in my experience that is why I didn't buy their equipment colleges of mine have had similar experiences particularly with wet milling.
       
    3. RileyS
      Inspired

      RileyS Well-Known Member Full Member

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      Lets hear your purchase decision. whatsentyou to ceramill? I've heard nothing but good, but it still gets filed with sirona in my brain unfortunately. fits and margins excellent under microscope?
       
    4. Affinity
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      Affinity Well-Known Member Full Member

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      Price was right, mill was used but had less than 100 hours on it. This is nothing like sirona..white light scanner, exocad, german quality througout..jager spindle, hyperdent cam, 6 tool changer. Only downside is not having a 98mm yoke but im working on that...
       
    5. grantoz
      Amused

      grantoz Well-Known Member Full Member

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      zz m5 outsource wet milling emax.they all have problems with wet milling accept sirona unfortunately that's all sirona seems to do well but because of this the sirona mill cost a fortune to run and coparatively poor fits if you have any irregular margins.
       
    6. Affinity
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      Affinity Well-Known Member Full Member

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      This is a motion 1 dry mill.. would love to eventually upgrade though
       
    7. Tramp

      Tramp New Member Full Member

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      You made the worst thing ever.
      Ceramill 1 is is not worth anything.

      Forgot about 98 blanks
      forgot about wet milling...
      Forgot about cheap blanks and cheap milling burs.

      Forgot about any future upgrades.
       
    8. French Cadman
      Happy

      French Cadman Well-Known Member Full Member

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      Closed system ...
       
    9. Affinity
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      Affinity Well-Known Member Full Member

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      I will prove you all wrong. Tramp i dont care about wet milling.. most of the mills on the market are dry so why is this any different?? Do you own this mill?

      French, why do you think its closed? Scanner ouputs .stl and i can use a few different companies materials and burs.. ie. Degos and sagemax.
      I will make a 98mm holder for this, because like ***, if you tell me it cant be done, it only makes me want to prove you wrong! Back me up here scott! The fixture CAN be made and there IS a workaround for the cam.. its been done!
       
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    10. Affinity
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      Affinity Well-Known Member Full Member

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      [​IMG] This is one.. But the 71mm fixture is already big enough for a 98mm disk, the yoke is held on with 2 screws. And you can add new blank stls in the cam, i just havent played with it enough but Ive heard labs have done it.
       
    11. Tramp

      Tramp New Member Full Member

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      Really is it possible??
      Have you done it yet?

      If that is true what are you saying that would be perfect!

      I'm motion 1 user and for me buying amann was big mistake :(

      How to get this holder for 98 blanks? And stls?

      In begining when amann was producing it, holder was for 98 but in official release they blocked it.

      For example as Ceramill Map 300 and Ceramill Map400 are SmartOptic company scanners.
      In the same way Ceramill Motion 1 and 2 are the brands of some company but i've never found who is making CAM machines for AG.

      Maybe any body knows?
       
      Last edited: Feb 15, 2014
    12. Affinity
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      Affinity Well-Known Member Full Member

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      Thats why im posting here! Im not just throwing my hands up and saying oh well it cant be done. Ive heard from a zir. Distributor that someone has added a beta test 98mm holder into the cam. So i dont think its impossible..
       
    13. cadfan
      Amused

      cadfan Well-Known Member Full Member

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      They start with a 98 mm holder than they changed it. you have to change the software maybe too its ds cam but in a closed version ill think so 3500 euro for an open 4 ax DS cam and 500 Euro the blanckholder and maybe it works if the cnc crontroller allows it try and error only 4 bucks you can be the AG master so take your chance.
       
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    14. adamb4321

      adamb4321 Active Member Full Member

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      Aren't most "systems" closed to some degree? Sure you can buy a scanner and a mill separately and then have to figure out all the settings in for the CAM stage and spend lots of time on trial and error till you get a restoration that works but that's not a system
       
    15. LA Ceramics
      Psychedelic

      LA Ceramics Active Member Full Member

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      In what way is the AG system "closed"? We own the Ceramill Motion II and map 400 scanner and we have used other peoples zirc,..wax and wet milled several different brands of LiS2 (including Emax)and have also accepted stl files from other labs using 3 shape and other software with no problems. The support has been excellent out of Charlotte.What do you see as a problem concerning the arch shaped discs. They actually result in less waste and I guess you would have to try it for a while and you will see that the shape can be an advantage in many cases, also pretty much every supplier now makes them. Oh and the sintron dude...off the hook excellent. I've used Dw, 3 shape, Delcam,and I personally much prefer Exocad.I don't have a horse in the race,..I just run the machine,..but if your asking me what I think about Amann Girbach I would say "WUNDERBAR!"(that's german for "Kicks ass")
       
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    16. Affinity
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      Affinity Well-Known Member Full Member

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      LA,I agree with everything you said.. running 3shape into this mill is no problem.

      The only problem i see with the arch shape disks is price and selection. Sure a handful of companies make them, (if there are others than what i listed do tell!) But 98mm discs are 10% cheaper and you can fit probly more thsn 10% more crowns in them.. easy math. Not to mention making your own wax, model material etc.
      It is limited but certainly not closed..
       
    17. LA Ceramics
      Psychedelic

      LA Ceramics Active Member Full Member

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      Pretty much all decent companies do or will be in a minute, even kerrox has one, be careful when buying blocks...It all starts out in japan but the most important part is the iso pressing and that pooch can be pumped. Saving 10% on S@#$ is not my idea of a bargain. Find a brand you trust and haggle a little. They'll wiggle if you push 'em a bit,..try it,..it's fun. Good luck pal!!
       
    18. Affinity
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      Affinity Well-Known Member Full Member

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      Thanks for your input. Stay on the thread please.. would love to hear more from a user. I think saving 10% is huge.. because this potentially lowers your per unit cost 20-25%.. thats nothin to sneeze at.. as a lab owner.. if i just used the machine in someone elses lab I wouldnt care about material costs. Its also about selection.

      The funny thing is the 'discount' AG gives you for using their products as a ceramill owner.. $248 for a disk of zr before discount??? I laughed at them... i was told the regular price is for labs that want to use their zr but dont own a ceramill.. HA it doesnt fit in other mills so who are these labs that would pay that much for a puck they cant use... sorry but i dont eat BS. Im on the fence about the customer service but so far theyve been friendly and helpful, just dont feed me a line.
       
    19. Tramp

      Tramp New Member Full Member

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      I stoped buying milling burs and zirconia block from amann.
      Zr block in amann are 40% more expensive that in other companies like kerox, degos dental, direct dental etc.

      Also milling burs! 40-50%!

      And i hear that amann Zr is axial pressed so it is old fashion. Better is iso pressed like in companies i mentioned.

      Sintron?

      For price which i can buy motion 2 i can buy vhf, zirkonzahn, yenadental which mills in CoCr and Titan.
      The mould for sinter metal is only good for 100 process and after you have to buy new one which cost a lot...
      Cost of coping is not so good as i calculated. When making bridges and bigger works i'm loosing a lot of material which brings up the cost.

      For me?

      Never AG.

      Just my opinion.
       
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    20. adamb4321

      adamb4321 Active Member Full Member

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      AG make zr blocks in other shapes I think, it's quite an interesting process watching them get made you should see the size of the pre sintering furnaces. In the UK the AG dealer was doing a buy two get one free deal, maybe all AG resellers do the same? There are certainly quite a few companies offering compatible pucks though.

      I've got the scanner but have to admit the thing that puts me off the mill is the puck shape, I'm sure that a nice round puck would hold more units. That said for most applications the ceramill motion is more than adequate, it's reasonably priced and it's a simple plug and play system that works straight out of the box, the technical support is good too which is a big consideration. There are a few mills about that look good like Yena etc but have zero tech support in the UK, if it goes wrong you've got to fly a guy in from Turkey or Korea or wherever.
       

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