4C Partial Dentures

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John C

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Has anyone tried using the thermoformed acrylic to make flexible partials? Thoughts?
 
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Has anyone tried using the thermoformed acrylic to make flexible partials? Thoughts?
Can you put a link to the material please?
It's an interesting idea, but the forming temp would have to be high enough to deal with coffee and tea. Glidewell has a non-nylon material they are calling Reflex that is chairside and pt reformable in hot water. I can't see this being a good thing, but I don't know enough yet either.
 
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Can you put a link to the material please?
It's an interesting idea, but the forming temp would have to be high enough to deal with coffee and tea. Glidewell has a non-nylon material they are calling Reflex that is chairside and pt reformable in hot water. I can't see this being a good thing, but I don't know enough yet either.
Good point. You can see it on YouTube by searching 4C Partial Denture..it's sold by Posca Dental Supply .Sorry I don't have a Web link.
 
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Good point. You can see it on YouTube by searching 4C Partial Denture..it's sold by Posca Dental Supply .Sorry I don't have a Web link.
Okie dokie.
 
JKraver

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Does not seem like a good idea to me.
 
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Proform has/had one, it used a flexible veneer over a thermoplastic reinforcing layer. I made one for my wife and it had a fatigue failure sooner than I would be comfortable with charging money for.
 
Denturist

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Had our spring conference this weekend and the reps were there for the 4C flexible PDs ....
Interesting material and I think it may have some potential.
It is an acrylic material and is repairable as well as relineable.
The teeth are set with acrylic and chemically bonded since the acrylic actually bonds to the 4C material.
Anyway the rep gave me some of the materials to play around with and test.
I'll let you know what I come up with and how it turns out..
At this point I don't provide flexible PD's , but if this material works out I will start offering them to my patients.

Here's a vid on making a PD with the 4C acrylic. This appears to be about all that is currently available info wise.
 
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Had our spring conference this weekend and the reps were there for the 4C flexible PDs ....
Interesting material and I think it may have some potential.
It is an acrylic material and is repairable as well as relineable.
The teeth are set with acrylic and chemically bonded since the acrylic actually bonds to the 4C material.
Anyway the rep gave me some of the materials to play around with and test.
I'll let you know what I come up with and how it turns out..
At this point I don't provide flexible PD's , but if this material works out I will start offering them to my patients.

Here's a vid on making a PD with the 4C acrylic. This appears to be about all that is currently available info wise.

Were they any more informative in person? The website for Posca Dental Supply is just a shell waiting for content. http://poscadentalsupply.com/

I'm intrigued, but concerned. Flexibility may be shown, but I can do that with my acrylics I already use. How many times can that happen before it stress fractures?
The use of a chemically bondable thermoformable material is an amazing feat, but I've learned to be cautious of new material's claimed abilities.
Also, his safety protocol is terrifying or missing. As is any adherence to an IFU that may or may not exist.
 
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I've done a couple practice cases using this and it seems to work pretty well. FYI. The food dehydrator seems to be mandatory. I tried to thermoform without it and they just bubbled up.
 
Denturist

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Like I said... just getting started checking it out... I will let you know my findings as I discover them.
I won't be offering them to my patients until I know more about them ... But at this point it has potential.
 
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The dehydration of the discs was stressed to eliminate the bubbling.... That part concerns me a little in that that the material appears to absorb moisture but so do standard acrylics. My concern is in the area of staining and oder.
 
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Doris A

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Posca is the families name that started TCS, I would imagine that this may be a spin-off of TCS.
Edit: I just went back and watched the beginning again and his name is Alex Posca, he was one of the founders of TCS, so either he's gone out on his own or this company is part of TCS.
 
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JohnWilson

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I have this erkoform machine and all the resin based disks have desiccate and sealed bags to try and keep moisture level down.

Anyone that has used clear surgical tray material designed for ANY vac-u-form machine knows the material bubbles if not managed well.

Its always been the same, and truthfully I am curious to see what is different about this material over traditional materials.
 
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Anyone that has used clear surgical tray material designed for ANY vac-u-form machine knows the material bubbles if not managed well.

Its always been the same, and truthfully I am curious to see what is different about this material over traditional materials.

I have been thinking about this as well and have noticed the two materials have certain physical similarities.
 
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Well I was messing around with one of the samples and The more I worked with it the more similar it was to the heavy (.080) surgical stint material.

This from the Henry Schein thermo forming material important notes.....
They state it is hygroscopic and should be stored in in the bag with the dry gell provided.
It also states to heat in an oven at 140 deg. for about an hour then let the material drop to room temp.
This is all very similar to the 4C puck.

The 4C puck is an injected blank which is obvious when you look at it.
It comes in clear or pink.... can you say color added?

Shein's instructions also state that if the stint material is used as a removable prostheses device that it should be cleaned regularly

So I guess you all can come to your own conclusions regarding the 4C material.

I think it certainly has potential and the fact that acrylic bonds with it, fabricating a flexible PD is certainly within the realm of reality for removable appliances.

So with all that you could probably just use the clear .080 Surgical stint material for some flexible PDs.
 
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Well I was messing around with one of the samples and The more I worked with it the more similar it was to the heavy (.080) surgical stint material.

This from the Henry Schein thermo forming material important notes.....
They state it is hygroscopic and should be stored in in the bag with the dry gell provided.
It also states to heat in an oven at 140 deg. for about an hour then let the material drop to room temp.
This is all very similar to the 4C puck.

The 4C puck is an injected blank which is obvious when you look at it.
It comes in clear or pink.... can you say color added?

Shein's instructions also state that if the stint material is used as a removable prostheses device that it should be cleaned regularly

So I guess you all can come to your own conclusions regarding the 4C material.

I think it certainly has potential and the fact that acrylic bonds with it, fabricating a flexible PD is certainly within the realm of reality for removable appliances.

So with all that you could probably just use the clear .080 Surgical stint material for some flexible PDs.
Thank's the the analysis! Have you tried to get pmma to delaminate or break free from the disc? Really also wondering, if you don;t mind, if you could discern craze lines at material change joints.
 
Denturist

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I will check that in a few days and let you know what I find.
I do recall though when I used to make an anti bruxing device for a Dr. I used .060 material and used clear acrylic for the ramp..... Only had it delaminate once so it really does bond well.
 
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Denturist

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Well been playing around with the 4c stuff a little more......got some of the acrylic and the fuse liquid.
The bond is Very good.
The flexibility is also surprising and appears to be quite durable.

I had put one of the sample disks in the dryer and apparently it wasn't long enough.....lol... see image.
Now these disks were samples and had been in the ambiant environment for who knows how long. I called Alex and talked with him about it and he reiterated that you should store the disks in a food dryer 24 hours a day at about 130 deg. once the bag is opened.

One of the cheap 25 dollar models he said works fine, no thermostat just on or off.
Anyway I will post some pics of a finished product after I get to that point.
 

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I have done about a half dozen so far. I tried at first without the dehydrator with the same result as you. I bought a dehydrator at Target for about $40. And if I leave a disc in there for a couple hours they heat up and form really good. I'm pretty slow at processing them but I haven't played with acrylics for a long time.
 
Denturist

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Next week I will have my first actual 4c PD to make and deliver. just getting used to the stuff at this time... I expect everything to go pretty smoothly actually.
I think the real key to success with this stuff is in the conditioning of the disks before vac-u-forming.
I do see good potential in the product.
 

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