3Shape Server Too Many Connections

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WarTortilla

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Hi,
The issue we are encountering is windows, non-server, is limited up to 20 connections at a time. We have grown and we keep adding new design stations for employees. We have two servers running a hybrid system now. They have separate databases and share the same dongle. I logged into one of our VMs today and thought, "Can't I just install 3shape on Windows Server?" I read the literature and called them up and everything seems like this is a possibility to bypass the Microsoft limit of 20 connections.

Has anyone else tried this with no issues? When I talked to our vendor they said they have a few like that but not many labs are big enough to need this. So I'm not too confident in setting this up since there is a lack of experience with this setup with the vendor.

My other question is, has anyone tried to run the 3shape server on a VM without a GPU? We do not design on the servers, but I believe the clients look at the resources of the host.
 
npdynamite

npdynamite

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I am far from an expert on this subject so I could be a little off, but I'll do my best. I have never worked in a lab that needed this many design seats so I haven't had to deal with your specific issue.

That said my first lab at some point moved the server install of 3Shape to an actual server and I don't recall any issues other than some inconvenience when you had to make a control panel/system type of change that needed to be done from the server install.

Also I am almost certain that client PC's will utilize their local GPU's, not the server. Same for most everything else. You do want to make sure of course that your server is fast and all that good stuff because when you are accessing 3Shapes database (setting up orders, loading things, working in the control panel) if your server is slow it will bottleneck all computers looking at it.

One last note, I once tried designing on a VM and it was an absolutely terrible experience. CAD design is not meant for VM's

Hope that helps
 
MedicalChimp

MedicalChimp

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I think that 20 limit is more referring to the active number of devices a windows 10 pro machine can have connected concurrently (i.e. remote storage like a NAS, printers, webcams, stuff of that nature.) I believe the 3shape setup as an install doesn't require you to add the server as a device in windows, so I doubt it would be an issue. (Leaning on my IT experience from my last career)

What you very well might start running into is bandwidth limitations affecting the performance on the client side with that much data bouncing between each design seat and your 'server' PC.

I'll second npdynamite, however. I wouldn't recommend using VM's and thin clients. The workloads are just overly intensive on the hardware and, well, "you're gonna have a bad time." Running on a VM means you WILL be using the servers hardware for absolutely everything, or you'll have to manually delegate resources per VM. This is not a good idea unless you have a TON of money to dump into some extraordinarily high end hardware. Our current baseline for our design stations is 32gb of ram and a 3080. Your looking at over 600gb of ram, insane processing and gpu requirements, all again potentially bottlnecked by network throughput.

Also, I see no reason why it couldn't run on Windows Server. It's basically normal windows with extra bells and whistles.
 
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AnAppleaDay

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Also interested in learning more about this.
Wish 3Shape would be more transparent about how ressources are utilized and where to spend when building a custom PC or server for it.
FWIW, we're running our 3Shape server on a custom built PC with 64GB RAM, an M.2 SSD for boot and SATA SSD for manufacturing folders and Database. The server PC runs headless but only has the integrated GPU on its Ryzen 5700G and so far so good.
The design PCs have RTX graphics cards.
 
npdynamite

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Also interested in learning more about this.
Wish 3Shape would be more transparent about how ressources are utilized and where to spend when building a custom PC or server for it.
FWIW, we're running our 3Shape server on a custom built PC with 64GB RAM, an M.2 SSD for boot and SATA SSD for manufacturing folders and Database. The server PC runs headless but only has the integrated GPU on its Ryzen 5700G and so far so good.
The design PCs have RTX graphics cards.
one small note on this, I was told by a very knowledgeable 3shape tech that it uses approximately 1gig of Ram per tooth being designed. Not that it helps a ton lol
 
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Steve Giles

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Hi,
The issue we are encountering is windows, non-server, is limited up to 20 connections at a time. We have grown and we keep adding new design stations for employees. We have two servers running a hybrid system now. They have separate databases and share the same dongle. I logged into one of our VMs today and thought, "Can't I just install 3shape on Windows Server?" I read the literature and called them up and everything seems like this is a possibility to bypass the Microsoft limit of 20 connections.

Has anyone else tried this with no issues? When I talked to our vendor they said they have a few like that but not many labs are big enough to need this. So I'm not too confident in setting this up since there is a lack of experience with this setup with the vendor.

My other question is, has anyone tried to run the 3shape server on a VM without a GPU? We do not design on the servers, but I believe the clients look at the resources of the host.
We are running 3Shape on a Widows Server VM with no issues. We ran into the exact same 20 connection limit with our old setup. It would manifest itself in odd connection errors and scanner failures and took quite a long time to diagnose. It's been about 2 months and we've had no issues. I'd recommend the change when you get to about 12-15 workstations, it seems like 3shape will open multiple connections to the server so you can hit the limit before you realize.
 
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DentalJAK

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Just saw this situation a while back. The 20 connection limit is for remote file access connections. (Anything using a mapped drive or \\computername type of connection).

We tested several situations and found the best performance when using a workstation with a GPU, but with Windows Server installed in it. There is a significant performance difference between a server or VM without a GPU and a machine with one, even when it is only acting as the server. I still can't figure out why.

Test it for yourself if you can, but my recommendation would be as follows:
  • Tower Workstation
  • Windows Server OS
  • i7 or i9
  • SSD minimum, NVME recommended
  • 16GB RAM minimum (64GB recommended)
  • GPU (20xx series Nvidia recommended but not required)
The more remote connections you add from design seats, the slower it's going to get. 12-15 does seem like the sweet spot for number of connections to each server. Any more than that and even with really good specs, we see performance degradation.
 
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