3Shape average crown design output?

blackhawk201

blackhawk201

Member
Full Member
Messages
32
Reaction score
3
Wondering what kind of averages should my designers should do in an 8 hour day. My designer does about 40-50 a day using 3Shape software. Obviously a mix of single crowns, bridges, etc. Just wondering if that's common.
 
CoolHandLuke

CoolHandLuke

Idiot
Full Member
Messages
9,288
Reaction score
1,411
then you need to have a designer that is invested in correct design.

in my hay day i could do that much and have them all fine, but due to the repetitive nature of the work i became less and less interested and invested in proper design and just let anything through.

take it from me this amount of volume is unhealthy if you get hourly wages. it is even less healthy for someone on unit pay. theres no reason to be invested in good design on unit pay especially at that volume.
 
blackhawk201

blackhawk201

Member
Full Member
Messages
32
Reaction score
3
then you need to have a designer that is invested in correct design.

in my hay day i could do that much and have them all fine, but due to the repetitive nature of the work i became less and less interested and invested in proper design and just let anything through.

take it from me this amount of volume is unhealthy if you get hourly wages. it is even less healthy for someone on unit pay. theres no reason to be invested in good design on unit pay especially at that volume.
So 40-50 is unhealthy? They usually land closer to 40 a day but sometimes is higher.
 
CoolHandLuke

CoolHandLuke

Idiot
Full Member
Messages
9,288
Reaction score
1,411
i was solo and i had mental stress making quality with >30 per 8 hr day. this forced me to stop fussing over small things and pass the buck.

it was also impossibly frustrating to have ceramists "disagree" and just grind away all the detail i poured over.

you wouldnt ask a ceramist to pump out 30 porcelain build ups a day, why would you demand that much from your scan-design team and expect the same level of quality ?
 
Affinity

Affinity

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
5,984
Reaction score
1,062
Who wouldnt ask a ceramist to pump out 30 a day? That was the standard minimum 20 years ago where I worked.

I would find another job before doing 50 CAD designs a day.. maybe when AR comes out it will be easier on the eyes but I get fatigued in the shoulders and eyes after about 4-5.

I would love to see some of these designs
 
blackhawk201

blackhawk201

Member
Full Member
Messages
32
Reaction score
3
So hire another designer if I need more than 50 done in a day? I have other people who design but not full time. Our scanners can get 60-80 cases scanned a day (using 3 scanners),but our designers are outputting 40-50.
 
CoolHandLuke

CoolHandLuke

Idiot
Full Member
Messages
9,288
Reaction score
1,411
or have ceramists pull double duty.

scanning is as simple as put it in the machine and press scan.

designing is not so simple. it is not press the button and presto a good unit comes out. in the same way you dont make a great cake by putting all the ingredients in the oven and hoping a cake comes out. there is skill, knowledge, and wisdom in design.

reducing the job to a matter of numbers is disrespecting that office - employees motivated only by speed of production never produce quality. speed of production is only something that should be a consideration when all the ducks are in a row for quality.

i can make 100 units a day if i let the software give me drunk units, i can let my mill give me any old hunk of crap, but if the name of the game is any measure of quality i have to bottleneck production to ensure quality is the only metric in consideration.

if you want to do 100 units a day then you have some options. 1. never make those units, let someone else make them. so you become an outsource design facility. 2. stop caring how badly your units are done. 3. only give designers a fixed number of units and take the pressure off for speed. let your employees relax and destress. motivate them for quality and encourage good communication with ceramists for production accuracy. doesnt help anyone if you design a gold crown so badly you grind off more gold than gets left on.

b1tching that your units suck is great, but the question should not be how much more do i make before it gets better. thats absurd.
 
Affinity

Affinity

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
5,984
Reaction score
1,062
I wouldnt hire another designer.. give the guy/gal 35 a day and set the expectation of better quality, outsource the overflow. I think what CHL said pretty much.
 
Jason D

Jason D

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
498
Reaction score
180
It depends upon the units but a simple single that takes longer than 5 minutes is either a slow operator or a “fiddler”.

10 unit veneers? An hour.

4 unit implant case with bad placement and tough tissue position? Could be 30 mins by itself.

Models take longer than crowns.

Yes 8 years again designing a unit took 10-13 minutes, but the software is better and the tools are simpler. I can teach a competent trainee who has good anatomy foundations (yes PTC is as relevant today as it ever was) to design simple singles with normal occlusion, clearance and proximal contacts to design a unit every 5 minutes in under 2 weeks.

Don’t believe the folks with beret on sideways calling themselves geniuses and fiddlers, accuracy is what matters, not how long you spend playing with something. Develop a good workflow and good training and 12 an hour of simples and 8 an hour of complex is normal.

If it takes longer you need to train them better or buy better computers.
 
Last edited:
Affinity

Affinity

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
5,984
Reaction score
1,062
Whats the punishment for fiddling? Id never make it in the corporate world.
 
Jason D

Jason D

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
498
Reaction score
180
Not being productive means you make less money...isn't that true for all small businesses? It's been true in every legitimate business I have ever heard about
 
blackhawk201

blackhawk201

Member
Full Member
Messages
32
Reaction score
3
We are also picking up business. I can have my designer do 35 a day but that means pans sit for longer times when I want to get them out quicker. Quality is important but if I can't get a basic crown done in a reasonable amount of time I will lose that customer. My scanners can scan 60+ cases a day but if my single designer only does 35 that means she will be backed up, and I would rather not outsource.
 
CatamountRob

CatamountRob

Banned Member
Full Member
Messages
6,783
Reaction score
1,531
We are also picking up business. I can have my designer do 35 a day but that means pans sit for longer times when I want to get them out quicker. Quality is important but if I can't get a basic crown done in a reasonable amount of time I will lose that customer. My scanners can scan 60+ cases a day but if my single designer only does 35 that means she will be backed up, and I would rather not outsource.
Get a whip.
 
KentPWalton

KentPWalton

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
1,753
Reaction score
265
Think of buying a sports car that can go 100 mph top speed. It's pretty cool going 100 mph at first, but then things start breaking down. You will get more use out of the car if you cruse at 50-75 over a long period of time.

You should invest in another designer if you're wanting to get that many designed in a single day. I've been in the high volume business before and a designer can get burned out quickly if you make them run full speed all the time. Invest in your people and stop worrying about the work. If you surround yourself with good people and treat them right, then the work will be taken care of.
 
KentPWalton

KentPWalton

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
1,753
Reaction score
265
or have ceramists pull double duty.

scanning is as simple as put it in the machine and press scan.

designing is not so simple. it is not press the button and presto a good unit comes out. in the same way you dont make a great cake by putting all the ingredients in the oven and hoping a cake comes out. there is skill, knowledge, and wisdom in design.

reducing the job to a matter of numbers is disrespecting that office - employees motivated only by speed of production never produce quality. speed of production is only something that should be a consideration when all the ducks are in a row for quality.

i can make 100 units a day if i let the software give me drunk units, i can let my mill give me any old hunk of crap, but if the name of the game is any measure of quality i have to bottleneck production to ensure quality is the only metric in consideration.

if you want to do 100 units a day then you have some options. 1. never make those units, let someone else make them. so you become an outsource design facility. 2. stop caring how badly your units are done. 3. only give designers a fixed number of units and take the pressure off for speed. let your employees relax and destress. motivate them for quality and encourage good communication with ceramists for production accuracy. doesnt help anyone if you design a gold crown so badly you grind off more gold than gets left on.

b1tching that your units suck is great, but the question should not be how much more do i make before it gets better. thats absurd.

Amen Brother!

I hate nothing worse than having to design a case over again! If it's done right the first time, so what if it takes a few more minutes right? Still less time than it would take to redesign it!
 
WaxOnScanOff

WaxOnScanOff

Member
Full Member
Messages
44
Reaction score
10
I'm a supervisor in a large lab. About 11 months ago we had to let our long time, lead digital designer go and I had to take over as designer until VERY recently. Basically self-taught on 3Shape over a 4 year period (and certified in Sirona InLab design as well). Not to brag, but I'm a fairly decent designer. I average about 30 full contour crowns a day and maybe get 2 a week back that needed redesigned or had a flaw in them. When I took over that position our remakes plummeted and the feedback from our clients was astronomical. My record for one day of design was 46 crowns. I was NOT on unit pay (again, I'm the supervisor) and I can tell you that forcing your designers to do more than 30 a day WILL result in quick burn out and inferior product. Plus more difficulty and harder work for the ceramists which in turn gets THEM frustrated. 5 mintues per unit is ideal, but since when do we get ideal cases? Things like malocclusion, tight contacts, proper thickness needed for the material, path of insertion (and lets not forget mis-scans!) all contribute to slower design times if you want a quality product.
 
Jason D

Jason D

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
498
Reaction score
180
If we had someone only able to do 30 a day we would put them back into training or find another area they could do better in.
 

Similar threads

M
Replies
1
Views
175
Car 54
Car 54
N
Replies
6
Views
528
A
S
Replies
0
Views
502
saramvitta
S
D
Replies
0
Views
398
drforbesdmd
D
Top Bottom