3Shape 2015 (15.5.0) Issues

[CoolHandLuke]

Hi again rkm rdt,

Regarding your last 3 questions above:

You ask: Will 3 shape waive or credit those of us that have not yet upgraded to 2015 even though our 2016 renewal is coming soon?
The yearly subscription is tied to more than one upgrade alone. It provides 3shape users all year long with major and minor upgrades, new libraries, new 3rd party integrations, user support, free training videos and more. We provide the upgrades but installing is up to the user. Unfortunately, we do not have a model for waiving or crediting users who choose not to apply the upgrades we release, mainly because there is much more provided by the subscription. So the short answer is: in order to keep your LABcare benefits and dongle active, you need to pay your annual subscription.


You ask: Everyone is switching to exocad to avoid paying yearly updates, why should I stick to 3 shape when I could save a lot of money?
I can only refer to what I hear from many of our users – they stick with 3shape because it is the best system. Things mentioned are that it supports the widest range of indications, has the best and most accurate scanners, integrated scanners and software, and the strongest eco system. Users stick with our business model because it helps them stay ahead, provide better dental services, and they get extra value beyond the CAD software alone.


You ask: Insane speed for trios was introduced last year,why the delay.
Yes, we probably announced this too soon. We are an innovation company and our innovative engineers can get very enthusiastic sometimes. But the TRIOS insane speed is also very exciting. J. The insane speed does in fact run smoothly (and fast!) on specific platforms, but we are working on stabilizing it across all our systems so therefore the delay. Curious - Are you using the TRIOS in your lab?

bruce i don't mean for this to sound as bad as its going to sound. please try not confuse this as being condescending, or derogatory.

"It provides 3shape users all year long with major and minor upgrades, new libraries, new 3rd party integrations, user support, free training videos and more. " ive never once received a new library, smile or otherwise, except in those major or minor updates - several of those libraries (along with the rest of the patch) are completely bugged as noted in earlier posts in this very thread. condyloform, bioform etc. 3rd party integrations ? i am not sure what you mean my user subscription pays 3shape to make Nobel work (when clearly it does not?) ? free training videos - such as? hosted on youtube no doubt ?

"I can only refer to what I hear from many of our users – they stick with 3shape because it is the best system." if people are communicating to you, by nature does that not mean they are in the midst of a crisis or problem ? given the wild shift in just this past year of 3shape users here on dln switching to exocad specifically to avoid the bugs and high cost with what metric do you measure the phrase "it is the best system" ? clearly as bugged it isn't.

"has the best scanners" i don't even know what to put here. has the simplest scanners maybe. has the most action occurring behind walls of code, sure. best, again is a metric you'll need to qualify.

"extra value beyond CAD" exactly how ? if CAD is what you focus on, then that's all you can ever provide. if users grind their units once theyve finished milling, how exactly did CAD do its job properly? it allowed a unit to be designed too far into the bite, or too tight in the contact. what value is there in a CAD suite that allows the user to create something that while it is mathematically correct, is not true to the real world. we know two stone models won't ever truly touch, so the Scan suite purposely opens the bite .2mm, but why would the CAD suite allow the crown to be designed <200um from the antagonist ?

bottom line from me Brucie, quite simply your CADCAM engineers better have a fantastic explanation for making its end users its bugtesters.

i like 3shape, i know how to use it. i have a certain degree of skill at it. i've been at it since 2007 and ive seen everything ive been around since the days before there was such a thing as anatomical design. i don't know exocad, but i wonder how long it will be before my employer thinks its time we started saving 7500$/year and maybe giving me a raise when we transition to exocad. because there really isn't anything 3shape can do that exocad can't at this point, except design using 3shape implants.

 

[zero_zero]

 

[kristian]

What about when you use the cut spline for contacts and you have a tooth on the other side that gets cut, did they fix that? So if i cut between 3 n 4and 14will get cut no matter where it lands on the tooth a nasty little bug, just happened again on a 9 unit case yesterday, FML it sucks.

Plane cut? I'm not sure what you mean. I haven't encountered that. From patch notes: "Plane cut" tool and "Cut to gingiva' option in ComposerTM are now working correctly."

 

[Sevan P]

Yes, plane cut tool. I use it to cut contacts sometimes, and when you have crowns being design on the other side of the arch and use it, it does not only apply the cut to the teeth your on, the cut is infinite and cuts through and crowns on the other side of the arch if they are in the same cut path. I will post a pic when I get a chance. You will have a good laugh at it.

 

[kristian]

Yes, plane cut tool. I use it to cut contacts sometimes, and when you have crowns being design on the other side of the arch and use it, it does not only apply the cut to the teeth your on, the cut is infinite and cuts through and crowns on the other side of the arch if they are in the same cut path. I will post a pic when I get a chance. You will have a good laugh at it.

Ok. Just tested it; plane cutting a #46 (30?) while the #36 (19?) is on the 'same line' won't affect the #36

 

[rkm rdt]

Thank you for the line of communication Bruce. Giving us an ability to share our thoughts with you goes a long way and you have stepped up to the plate!

 

[Sevan P]

Ok. Just tested it; plane cutting a #46 (30?) while the #36 (19?) is on the 'same line' won't affect the #36

I thought they fixed it in 5.0 but nope, not often does this happen but when it does it sucks.

 

[Bruce Frederic]

Hi, Bruce. As a one man lab, trying to keep current with the direction of CAD/CAM is going, it's getting harder to keep up with the expenses of 3Shape and it's yearly mandatory fees, add on module fees, and then with all the Dr's I/O scanner options and using CAD points or model builder/All Scans$$ purchase fee, and yearly maintenance fee.

At what point does a person give up and go Exocad? Or do you realize you may lose some of smaller labs like myself, and just write them off and consider the larger labs who buy the D1000 or D2000 and pay the fees, will make up the difference lost by the smaller lab exodus to Exocad?

Hi, Bruce. As a one man lab, trying to keep current with the direction of CAD/CAM is going, it's getting harder to keep up with the expenses of 3Shape and it's yearly mandatory fees, add on module fees, and then with all the Dr's I/O scanner options and using CAD points or model builder/All Scans$$ purchase fee, and yearly maintenance fee.

At what point does a person give up and go Exocad? Or do you realize you may lose some of smaller labs like myself, and just write them off and consider the larger labs who buy the D1000 or D2000 and pay the fees, will make up the difference lost by the smaller lab exodus to Exocad?

Hello CAR 54


I understand your position. As a one man lab, it can naturally be more complex to ensure high ROI. We still believe that we have the best system for both large and small labs. We have a wide range of scanner choices from hi to low end like the D500 which is still a very good lab scanner in terms of speed and accuracy. And we construct our CAD solution for modularity to give users choices according to their business scope. You mention the CAD points. This was especially constructed to help smaller labs access the special add-on software modules on a pay-per-design basis and a minimum up-front investment. We also believe that our open system and extensive eco system allows smaller labs to choose the most cost efficient manufacturing solutions. We are not trying to focus on larger labs who buy the D1000 or D2000. We strive to provide optimal solutions for labs of all sizes and we receive positive feedback from many small labs as well as large ones. We would truly value your suggestions as to how we can be even better at providing ensuring hi ROI solutions for the smaller labs.

/Bruce

 

[Car 54]

Thank you for taking the time to answer both of my posts, Bruce.

I can't argue with all that you mentioned as far as module options and point options. And yes, I did buy a D500, and so far have been happy with it. That option alone helped me to get into the CAD world without breaking me financial. I even got a good deal at a Chicago meeting which included the Premium software and the Abutment module.

I guess for now, when the time comes and if one of my Dr's (my main accounts have Cerec) purchase any other I/O scanner than Trios (I will steer them towards that),I will buy points if needed and go from there. Again, at least 3Shape gives us that option.

If it weren't for the seeming freedom from not having to spend yearly module maintenance fees such as with Exocad, maybe it wouldn't be as much of an issue as it sometimes seems to be, when you compare. Yet 3Shape is pretty user friendly and robust and has greater support from major vendors (Ivoclar, CAP, Argen, CMC etc) so that is also worth something.

Thank you for being part of this Forum Bruce, we appreciate it.

 

[Torquadon]

Hi again rkm rdt,

Regarding your last 3 questions above:

You ask: Will 3 shape waive or credit those of us that have not yet upgraded to 2015 even though our 2016 renewal is coming soon?
The yearly subscription is tied to more than one upgrade alone. It provides 3shape users all year long with major and minor upgrades, new libraries, new 3rd party integrations, user support, free training videos and more. We provide the upgrades but installing is up to the user. Unfortunately, we do not have a model for waiving or crediting users who choose not to apply the upgrades we release, mainly because there is much more provided by the subscription. So the short answer is: in order to keep your LABcare benefits and dongle active, you need to pay your annual subscription.


You ask: Everyone is switching to exocad to avoid paying yearly updates, why should I stick to 3 shape when I could save a lot of money?
I can only refer to what I hear from many of our users – they stick with 3shape because it is the best system. Things mentioned are that it supports the widest range of indications, has the best and most accurate scanners, integrated scanners and software, and the strongest eco system. Users stick with our business model because it helps them stay ahead, provide better dental services, and they get extra value beyond the CAD software alone.

So basically again, not enough you are going to remove some libraries but also you do not mind some things being broken. You do not see your yearly fee being an obligation for you to get things working, do it fast and then apologize for the delay. How interesting, are you working in Exocad marketing team?

3Shape being the best system is very subjective, so is your scanners being most accurate. It is funny how you are trying to advertise 3Shape here rather then help to solve our problems. I can't understand why you fail to see that telling - 3shape is best and if you want to stay ahead stick to us - to people who have massive problems with your system, and I mean problems which are your failures, not ours and then you know some of us own Exocad scanners which are working without similar issues is only going to confirm one thing to us - you care about 3Shape image not our issues and I am sorry to say I do not give a damn about 3hape image sir, I will say more I will tell anyone I know to stay away from your company just to avoid problems.

Please understand one simple fact, if your system does not work after update it does not have widest range of indications, because its range of indications is ZERO.

I am aware my post is hostile but I would like to see some help from 3Shape and so far all I see from you is advertising and some form of silly PR damage control.

Please understand the way I think, and I believe some other users too - removing some libraries because you can't get them to work you see as a solution, I see it as an insult from people who take my money and fail to see it creates an obligation. Also please do not imply we choose not to apply upgrades - we can't do it because they take away some functionality from our system.

 

[kristian]

I got confirmation that the ScanItDental error during 15.6.0 installation is just cosmetical; it does install fine regardless. 15.6.1 fixes the error, but isn't necessary if you have already installed 15.6.0.

 

[rookiee]

3Shape is messing it badly. We have to find out with every upgrade if it works and if not why and loose time with "testing" on older versions etc... Really disapointed after two years of usage. Since I found 15.5. crapy I used to design in 2014. Yesterday I could not save custom abutment design, crowns were ok. Today I try in 15.6. and it works but who knows what's not working in 15.6.! :/

 

[kristian]

Today I try in 15.6. and it works but who knows what's not working in 15.6.! :/

Well, we've been using 15.6 for 2 weeks now, and we haven't found anything that would not work in it that was working in 15.5. We've done C&B, abutments, abutment bridges with gingiva, other regular stuff. The only thing I noticed that disappeared with 15.6 was the visible cement space and margin when placing your library crown. Of course, depending on your setup, other issues may or may not arise as we've seen previously in this thread.

 

[Sevan P]

3Shape is messing it badly. We have to find out with every upgrade if it works and if not why and loose time with "testing" on older versions etc... Really disapointed after two years of usage. Since I found 15.5. crapy I used to design in 2014. Yesterday I could not save custom abutment design, crowns were ok. Today I try in 15.6. and it works but who knows what's not working in 15.6.! :/

I beg to differ, I find 2015.5.0 pretty stable other then the pontic spline cut, I found a way around every issue it has thrown at me, if you made the mistake of updating your production line then that your own fault, I always run a test PC on the side or at home before updating my production line. I got word from well know people not to jump to 6.0 or even install 6.1 due to breaches in certain parts of the software. I'm happy on 5.0 so until i find a more stable version i don't mind the bugs, they DO NOT stop production and if they do you obviously can't work around them.

 

[kristian]

I got word from well know people not to jump to 6.0 or even install 6.1 due to breaches in certain parts of the software.

Please elaborate

 

[Andy B]

Please elaborate

I have just installed 15.6.1 and still unable to generate nobels uni base as a cam, do you know what they did to fix it on your end ?
It was working with that weird fix that i posted on version 15.5, but no longer......
The scanning is a lot faster on this version as well as the aligning of the models, just wish i could generate the cam files...

 

[kristian]

I have just installed 15.6.1 and still unable to generate nobels uni base as a cam, do you know what they did to fix it on your end ?

3Shape changed something in our dongle options, I ran update, it worked. Now that they know what the issue is, the fix should be quick. I contacted [email protected] directly, you could reference "[CAS-120416-C1Y0X1] 3Shape:02680146801" for my support case ID.

 

[Sevan P]

3SHape contacted all retailer highly urging not to install 6.1 the link has been removed for download due to issues. Breaches will not effect production. 6.0 is fine.

This is why I opted out of the 2016 upgrade for now. Most likely this will be the last of the 215 upgrades release. 2016 might be launched in june or july. Hopefully the reclaim themselves in the 2016 version.

 

[KentPWalton]

3SHape contacted all retailer highly urging not to install 6.1 the link has been removed for download due to issues.

The link is still up as of right at this moment. Just checked it myself.

 

[Sevan P]

The link is still up as of right at this moment. Just checked it myself.

Word, thanks Kent, I still wouldn't install 6.0 or 6.1 yet.