2 PART QUESTION

[DreN4do]

1. I am using a Zenotec Mini milling machine (will soon upgrade to the Ivoclar machine),but is anyone else using this machine? Does it vibrate enough to break or crack the margin lines?


2. Since I have switched to the Ivoclar PRIME blocks (which give amazing results),the edges keep breaking or chipping off often. Is it because it may be a softer material (before sintering) or
is it because I am using the Zenotec Mini for milling and all the vibrations are causing these issues?

 

[CoolHandLuke]

hello and welcome!

chipping can come from many sources, old tooling, poor air quality, wrong speeds, and so on. Wieland mini has been used by several people here with good success, so as a general concept, the machine should be fine. though that depends a lot on how well it is kept.

in the fight against chips i've found rule 1: check the roughing tool. take it under a microscope and look at the surface of the edge. it probably needs changing.

 

[DreN4do]

hello and welcome!

chipping can come from many sources, old tooling, poor air quality, wrong speeds, and so on. Wieland mini has been used by several people here with good success, so as a general concept, the machine should be fine. though that depends a lot on how well it is kept.

in the fight against chips i've found rule 1: check the roughing tool. take it under a microscope and look at the surface of the edge. it probably needs changing.

thank you for the info... i do clean the chamber every night. i also clean the collet chuck after every 75 units of milled.

when you say the roughing tool, are we talking about the 2.5mm burr?

 

[Contraluz]

1. I am using a Zenotec Mini milling machine (will soon upgrade to the Ivoclar machine),but is anyone else using this machine? Does it vibrate enough to break or crack the margin lines?

Hi and Welcome! I have the same mill and haven't had any chipping issues until:

I have switched to the Ivoclar PRIME blocks (which give amazing results),the edges keep breaking or chipping off often. Is it because it may be a softer material (before sintering) or

I do think it is softer. At least softer than the Multi MT pucks...

is it because I am using the Zenotec Mini for milling and all the vibrations are causing these issues?

That I can not say. But I definitely would like to know the cause and how to prevent it! But in the meanwhile, I will follow CHL's advise:

in the fight against chips i've found rule 1: check the roughing tool. take it under a microscope and look at the surface of the edge. it probably needs changing.

 

[DreN4do]

i just don't know what CHL is referring to, when he mentioned the Roughing Tool? I am thinking it me the 2.5 mm burr. but i could be wrong. like i said, i'm kinda new to all this

 

[CoolHandLuke]

Most dental milling follows the general principle of rough-cutting the tooth, then fine finishing the tooth with progressively smaller tools. Use a bigger tool to cut a general shape, rough form.

In many cases this means using a 2mm or 2.5mm, or in the case of titanium 3mm.

Check that bigger tool because if it is damged, then it will take chunks out instead of making clean cuts. These chunks can create pockets in thin areas and make it seem like tiny chips have been made.

 

[DreN4do]

Most dental milling follows the general principle of rough-cutting the tooth, then fine finishing the tooth with progressively smaller tools. Use a bigger tool to cut a general shape, rough form.

In many cases this means using a 2mm or 2.5mm, or in the case of titanium 3mm.

Check that bigger tool because if it is damged, then it will take chunks out instead of making clean cuts. These chunks can create pockets in thin areas and make it seem like tiny chips have been made.

Thank you for the explanation. I usually check the time remaining for each burr, including the 2.5 mm. The total usage time is 10.0, I switch out the burr when it reaches 9.0 ot of 10.0. But sometimes it still manages to chip. I will pay closer attention to the rough cutting tool though. Thank you

 

[Car 54]

If you haven't replaced the collet for awhile, maybe try that also. Couldn't hurt, and at least you'd have a back up if that didn't help to resolve the problem.
I use Ivoclar's burs (Basic) with great success. If you're using another vendors, try the Ivoclar ones.

My Mini's been cutting great for 3+ years, and I bought a used demo one.

edit: also, just for maintenance sake, if you haven't taken the cover off for awhile, do a little house cleaning and also check all the screws including inside the milling chamber, that everything it snug.

 

[Patrick Coon]

I would also look at what you have the Mini sitting on. Is it a good solid bench, or a TV tray? If you can easily shake the bench it's on, it will be able to produce a little shimmy as it mills and could cause these type issues.

 

[Car 54]

lol...TV tray

 

[Patrick Coon]

lol...TV tray

I would say "you'd be surprised what I see," but I'm sure you know what goes on in some labs.

 

[Car 54]

I would say "you'd be surprised what I see," but I'm sure you know what goes on in some labs.

Yep, you're right

When I used to work out of my house, my local rep at the time David Martini, who helped set me up with the Empress System and oven, had some stories of things he saw while he was setting up Empress for other labs

 

[Brett Hansen CDT]

I have been running a Zenotec Mini for four plus years. I agree with everything that has been posted above. I would definitely replace the collet if you havent done it in awhile or ever. I replace ours about every 6 months. I would also pay close attention to the measuring key to make sure that it isn't damaged. I usually have to replace that every 6 months also.

I like rule #1 CHL....what's rule #2 in the battle against chipping?!?!

 

[DreN4do]

I would also look at what you have the Mini sitting on. Is it a good solid bench, or a TV tray? If you can easily shake the bench it's on, it will be able to produce a little shimmy as it mills and could cause these type issues.

This is my set-up. I did have it further to the left, where it was partially over the vacuum case, but I moved it back over the drawer about 2 weeks ago. Still I see it shaking and vibrating on and off. I checked the bottom of each contact, and the rubbers are in tact.

 

[Car 54]

If you put your hand on the right side, is it, the vibration, mostly coming from that side?

Also, is it during a particular bur set, like the beginning 2.5, or the .7 if you're using that combination?
If you just run it with the 2.5 and the 1.0, does it still do it? I can get some vibration when milling wax
when it mills from the #6 hole, the .7mm bur.

edit: I still think you should probably take a look under the hood to make sure everything is and feels tight,
and that you don't have anything else going in there that you may not be aware of

 

[CoolHandLuke]

I have been running a Zenotec Mini for four plus years. I agree with everything that has been posted above. I would definitely replace the collet if you havent done it in awhile or ever. I replace ours about every 6 months. I would also pay close attention to the measuring key to make sure that it isn't damaged. I usually have to replace that every 6 months also.

I like rule #1 CHL....what's rule #2 in the battle against chipping?!?!

rule 2 is dont buy any imes but the 350.

 

[DreN4do]

do any of you have the .3d or .stl file on the collet removing tool for the zenotec mini, to mill and sinter? i knew someone that had it, but he got
rid of his laptop and the file went away with it.

 

[Car 54]

If no one her has it, call Ivoclar mill support and see if they have the .stl file to send you. They had mentioned it when I took my hands on course.