Ideal CAM machine for titanium

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doc_ty

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Hello. I'm a dentist that lives in a rural area. We do quite a bit of implants and provide other services that require extensive lab work. Since we have to mail our cases, it adds about one week to each round trip for a case.
I'm looking to create my own in-house lab to save time and for convenience. I would like your feedback on what mills you would recommend that will mill a wide variety of materials, especially titanium for custom abutments.
Thanks.
 
JMN

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Hello. I'm a dentist that lives in a rural area. We do quite a bit of implants and provide other services that require extensive lab work. Since we have to mail our cases, it adds about one week to each round trip for a case.
I'm looking to create my own in-house lab to save time and for convenience. I would like your feedback on what mills you would recommend that will mill a wide variety of materials, especially titanium for custom abutments.
Thanks.
There's no way to ask this politely. Do you have any idea how much of a learning curve you're looking at and how much time it would take to replace your lab doing "quite a bit" of extensive lab work?

If you want to do this, and are quite serious, you will need at least one full time tech to run your lab. Your best path would be to find a tech to do what you desire and build the lab around them instead of the other way around.
 
EJADA

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Jmn. Totally agree. Are you willing to pay a quality tech $80-$100k. Plus $150k at least in equipment just to get started. How rural are you. I service several rural areas in northern Colorado. We do ups ground. They get it to us and back over night (in most cases). Have you ever designed custom abutments. I just got a case from a local client that had astra do the abutments. Looked like a 12 years old designed them. And they are supposed to be one of the best. Just saying. There is soooo much more to what you are asking.
 
Car 54

Car 54

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For milling your own abutments, do you have to buy a FDA certification?
 
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doc_ty

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I appreciate all the feedback you guys have given. I'm just tossing some ideas around and starting to work the numbers. I would like to partner with a lab tech, not run the lab myself. Also, there are about 20 or so local dentists that are potential clients. They are in the same situation as me, mailing cases back and forth. Also, much of the equipment that labs use can also be used by a dental office lab, for example a CAD/CAM system. Which brings me back to my original question: which one would you all recommend for a beginner lab? Must be able to mill titanium.
Thanks
 
2000markpeters

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Apart from the incredible cost of a decent mill (200,000 to 500000),no desk top models here if you are seriously thinking of milling connections, are you prepared to learn how to scan, learn the scan software, then learn to make strategies in let's say Sum3d with the help of Rhino software. Learn the intrecacies of your milling machine, how to calibrate, the incredible cost of burs and discs?
I don't think so. Wait the week and let the experts handle it. You don't see labs putting in implants, do you?
 
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Apart from the incredible cost of a decent mill (200,000 to 500000),no desk top models here if you are seriously thinking of milling connections, are you prepared to learn how to scan, learn the scan software, then learn to make strategies in let's say Sum3d with the help of Rhino software. Learn the intrecacies of your milling machine, how to calibrate, the incredible cost of burs and discs?
I don't think so. Wait the week and let the experts handle it. You don't see labs putting in implants, do you?
I said I wanted to partner with a lab technician. I think it would be a good relationship for both of us and be able to serve other dentists in the community. Don't know what's up with the hostility.
 
Affinity

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Depends on what you want to mill also, as a dentist you are able to mill the interface, so you can make your own bars, if youre ambitious.. but youre talking in the $75k+ range, if you want amill that can do premilled blanks, check out the new Degree of Freedom mill. You will spend less than half that much and be able to do your emax, temps, splints, ti abutments, peek abutments zirc, etc.. No need for extra air compressor! :eek:
Bebored
 
EJADA

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Other than titanium what else do you want to mill.
 
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Don't think I'll do Ti Bars. Those cases don't come around very much, and we would just outsource that. Single unit abutments of Ti and zirconium, emax, composite, and acrylic are what we would do most often.
 
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you got a bad vibe when you indicated that the surgery staff could use the equipment as well.unfortunately most guys on this thread have been offered that kind of business deal before it is very rare that it works out. the techo ends up been held to ransom by the local dentists they only have to have one problem with one of the twenty and thats it , also the other dentists will not want to have much to do with the lab if you are involved they dont like another dentist knowing their business and making money out of them. the best thing to do is buy the equipment own the lab and train a local send them to college on what you want you will be creating a job or two for the local community and this will help your practice build from within the community .try Zirkonzahn they have number of training facilities in the states and around the world.
 
JMN

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Hello. I'm a dentist that lives in a rural area. We do quite a bit of implants and provide other services that require extensive lab work. Since we have to mail our cases, it adds about one week to each round trip for a case.
I'm looking to create my own in-house lab to save time and for convenience. I would like your feedback on what mills you would recommend that will mill a wide variety of materials, especially titanium for custom abutments.
Thanks.
The hostility isn't exactly personal. It's just that many dentists have come here and basically asked 'What do I buy to get rid of you guys' and then disappear to never be seen again instead of being a resource for what they know while asking for help with what they don't.
 
Car 54

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Not if you are a dentist doing them in house for yourself.

Thank you, 2th, I wasn't sure how that went for a Dr, compared to labs and milling centers.
 
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I really appreciate all the feedback from you guys. My main purpose for creating an in-house lab is for patient convenience. My practice is a higher end practice, no PPO's and the like. Since my fees are higher, my patients expect results quickly. The lab itself will probably only break even, after I pay the tech, but will help the practice grow. This is especially true for dentures, not just implant restorations. Making a quality complete denture requires several steps, mailing back and forth to the lab between each one. I haven't asked about denture stuff because I'm much more familiar with the equipment needed for them.
Keep up the conversation. This is good stuff.
 
JMN

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The more specific your questions, the more useful the answers.

With a mill, want to make sure you know it's not just buying a mill, but getting a higher end compressor to feed it, air line chiller/dryer, special electrical for the mill and the compressor, and more still.
 
eyeloveteeth

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I really appreciate all the feedback from you guys. My main purpose for creating an in-house lab is for patient convenience. My practice is a higher end practice, no PPO's and the like. Since my fees are higher, my patients expect results quickly. The lab itself will probably only break even, after I pay the tech, but will help the practice grow. This is especially true for dentures, not just implant restorations. Making a quality complete denture requires several steps, mailing back and forth to the lab between each one. I haven't asked about denture stuff because I'm much more familiar with the equipment needed for them.
Keep up the conversation. This is good stuff.

Where are you located?

Here is the problem you are setting yourself up for. Just because you buy the best equipment does not mean you will get things any faster. The technician(s) you employ will be your limiting factor. On top of that, it sounds like your practice will focus on anterior units the most - no matter how you hash it out, that takes time. On top of that, what difference is it to you then if you use a Ti Base vs a Custom Abutment?

I respect your desire to increase your productivity/expand the business, but I also respectfully need to point out that your goals don't quite match up. Are you looking for INOLs? (Immediate non-occlusal loaded temps?),do you have a spa attached or a "relaxing room" so that the patient can wait 5 hours for a fast sinter Zirconia Screw Retained single? - which won't look super pretty, but gets the job done - again, not sure that fits the profile of your patients.

There are many ways to reach some of what you want, but if you're high end fee for service, your anterior works needs to be perfect. In that case, labs like Utah Valley Dental Lab (in utah),Gold Dust Dental Lab (AZ),Protech Dental Studios (VA),Valley Dental (MN) - are just a few of some of the best labs in North America that can easily service you and probably get it done faster. (I know for a fact all of the said labs are also fully Trios competent and have been providing next day to even same day INOL's for their local accounts)

I know Protech Dental Studios and UVDL have also been doing overnight (obviously the clinician pays for it) INOL's out of state as well.



Now to address the elephant in the room, not to say that there aren't amazing quality dentures, but usually those are bar cases. You've said yourself you're not interested in milling bars, so things aren't quite lining up. Other than that, usually these will be all ceramic or Pekkton cases. All of which will take a tremendous amount of time even for high skilled labs like the ones listed.

You need to be more clear on exactly what you want to achieve and it's possible we may provide some extra insight, but right now it's all too vague.
 
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I know I'm being a bit vague, but this is only the planning stages. As a result of the forum I've been able to contact some people in the same situation as me as well as some good vendors that have pointed me in the right direction. With this new information I will be able to see that is possible and go from there. Thanks to all for your help!!
 
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