Thermoplastic Acrylics

drm313mac

drm313mac

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Yes, as I said before bre-crystal, acry free, flexite mp are the current offerings of thermoplastic PMMA I am aware of.



If we are losing something in translation I am sorry...be it ivo-capsules or handmixed Diamond D.....heating will initiate/accelerate cure leaving you with a solid mass. This mass should there have been initial residual formaldehyde will likely still contain it within the matrix. This is why injection pellets must be vacuum aged. The plain and simple of it is....while I am sure you have a scientific background, and are probably a decent dentist you are not an FDA licensed medical manufacturer, the expense to become one, and the required annual expenses is hard to justify unless you dont want to be a dentist anymore and want to be a manufacturer. ADA approved materials are only approved for use when used in accordance to the manufacturers instructions....so even if you skirt the FDA your still in troubled waters.

As I said before, if the companies I have mentioned products do not meet your needs....contact them and contract a batch to your specifications.
Do you ever have a client who has been playing dentist at home....cleaning their own teeth with metal pics...etc....Do you not believe that there is a call for relying on properly trained professionals within their specific field?



Thanks for confirming....In truth I already knew but thought the comment would benefit others understanding of what you are doing. As I have mentioned in the past the use of thermoplastic acrylic is still pretty uncommon and few technicians are well versed in its nuances.

Institutions reject radical ideas, Radical ideas that survive eventually grow into....Institutions that reject radical ideas. Early adopters of any technology or technique are oft faced with the dichotomy of trying to teach what they are doing, so others understand, while they themselves are still struggling to. There are serious benefits to thermoplastic systems...but unfortunately at this time, there arent a great number of options in providers...yet.

Heating prior to injection: Yes, I agree with what you are saying, but I am only advocating heating to 60 Celsius, so will this also have the same effect? Will I lose the material by heating only to that lower temerature?

Also, if I am heating prior to injection, but otherwise following manufacturer requirements, it is a non-issue. Besides, dentists always vary things somewhat. Take as an example amalgam. By law if we spill any we are required to call EPA for a cleanup, yet, do you really think any dentists do that? By law, if you break a fluorescent bulb you must call the EPA, as again it contains mercury, but have you ever done so? Thus, the variations issue is a moot point, and only becomes an issue when something goes wrong.

Per thermoplastic systems, I totally agree; the fields are limited, in techs trained, in materials. Say I am successful, and order gobs of said materials. This will cause the fields to expand exponentially, as other ofices will get on board.

Take as an example a primary competitor of mine. He is challenging my advertising to the state board. He does not want me to advertise that I use better quality impression materials, or anything for that matter that result in a better denture. He does not want me to advertise monomer-free dentures or relines or repairs. He uses THE cheapest acrylics, cold-cure for all procedures, Nordent and Z-Dent teeth, alginate, Type-II stone, etc. Who is correct? Do I have the right to spend the extra money and deliver a denture that fits better and last longer, and also so state? According to him I cannot educate patients on the differences in dentures. Who is correct?
Say I win, he and others will lose market share, and only then will they change how they are delivering, and this will change the market.
 
drm313mac

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TECHARTISAN Have you worked with the Brea Crystal? bredent GmbH & Co.KG
I have worked with Flexite MP not regularly, I must not have the nack for it the fit is not always what I want and plaster separation isn't really good (maybe it is the 270*c). I could not find a FDA cert for breadent crystal, so I cannot obtain it here to try it. You also must turn up the pressure to max on the flexipres to shoot MP. the FLEXITE F-3 INJECTION MACHINE Flexite Injection Machine allows you to hook up to a nitrogen tank or 1/2 air line to get the necessary 146 psi pressure for MP.
The Acri-free looks to be a copy of flexite but has no FDA cert either. Perflex - Aesthetic denture - the natural choice - about us Their denture material even requires the same specs 9.5 bar pressure at 270*c. with a 20 min press. http://www.perflexltd.com/db/content/1q30dt1d.pdf

Andrew,

What is the max pressure your compressor runs at? That is, I thought you previously told me you have a commercial unit? Mine maxxes out @ 175 psi, 34.1 cfm, 120 gallon tank. I assume this would be sufficiant then to inject these materials? The point then, would it not be prudent to purchase say an extra compressor, just for these materials? Lowes and Sears both sell smaller units that deliver 150, even 175 psi, that will not break the bank.

Also, per relines of nylons. You and others have stated relining this material is nigh impossible. Why? Are you using the standard cold-cure systems for reline? If so, why not use the same material as the original denture, at the same pressure and temperature? In other words inject the reline material into the flasked denture? Yes, the procedure is different than the regular reline, but would not this solve the issues? That is, you would get bonding at the molecular level, as the materials are the same.
Your thoughts?
 
drm313mac

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I have tried it but not really worked with it. I spent a week in a lab that had switched from using MP to the bre.crystal. AFOAF invited me to check it out when he heard I was thinking about buying a thermal injection system. Im kind of curious now if their using unapproved material...

Anyway....the most significant difference I saw from MP is that the "bead" diameter of brecrystal was smaller.

separator and stone selection seems to make a huge difference not only in this application but in my experience thus far with all thermal injection material. This is only complicated by the higher temperature and pressure requirements. I was pretty impressed with the results though.

What is the issue with stone? Is it that the stone must withstand the temperatures and pressure? Will not Type-IV stone work?

What seperator must be used with each? Can one agent be used for all thermoplastic systems? What brands do you advocate? With my lack of experience, I have always used what the manufacturer recommends, though we both know there are usually better materials, for less.
 
drm313mac

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Another question I have regarding the higher pressure injection systems. Do we need to protect the teeth, different from normal flasking, from this injection pressure? Are any of you having issues herein?
 
JohnWilson

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Hey Dr,

I was reading over your very informative website (do you really think patients understand the expansion of type 4 stone)

Anyhow I saw a fact you posted about how you graft every extracted tooth site. This seems way over kill and certainly not the norm in this industry. I see you flat rate your extractions at a premium to cover this cost, I suppose this is a good source of income compared to your competition. How do you justify the need to do this?

Also you seem to push a very large cash discount up to 30%. This seems outrageous, as a business man how do you mangage to make that number work? You mention how much superior your methods are over your competition but it appears you are after the same patients that are shopping at what you call "Mills" Do you consider your practice a mill?

I see you have some positions open for tech's are you compensating on hourly, piece work or a day rate?. Since you model is to have one tech from start to finish I am interested in the Techs cut on a $300 denture as essentially it takes the same time to set a cheap tooth as a premium tooth. I guess you have to rely on the extractions to make money on these imd. cases.

I have been doing removable for many many years, I know the benefit of being chair-side, I also know how much time this takes as well. A tech in house is not very productive if having to be in the op more than a few minutes a day as see it.

Again this may seem argumentative but its not meant to be, I respect new ideas and all but I just don't see how you can produce anything for under a 1000 an arch and still make money on it. Post insertion adjustments alone would eat your time up unless your delegating that responsibility to the tech??
 
drm313mac

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Hey Dr,

I was reading over your very informative website (do you really think patients understand the expansion of type 4 stone)

Anyhow I saw a fact you posted about how you graft every extracted tooth site. This seems way over kill and certainly not the norm in this industry. I see you flat rate your extractions at a premium to cover this cost, I suppose this is a good source of income compared to your competition. How do you justify the need to do this?

Also you seem to push a very large cash discount up to 30%. This seems outrageous, as a business man how do you mangage to make that number work? You mention how much superior your methods are over your competition but it appears you are after the same patients that are shopping at what you call "Mills" Do you consider your practice a mill?

I see you have some positions open for tech's are you compensating on hourly, piece work or a day rate?. Since you model is to have one tech from start to finish I am interested in the Techs cut on a $300 denture as essentially it takes the same time to set a cheap tooth as a premium tooth. I guess you have to rely on the extractions to make money on these imd. cases.

I have been doing removable for many many years, I know the benefit of being chair-side, I also know how much time this takes as well. A tech in house is not very productive if having to be in the op more than a few minutes a day as see it.

Again this may seem argumentative but its not meant to be, I respect new ideas and all but I just don't see how you can produce anything for under a 1000 an arch and still make money on it. Post insertion adjustments alone would eat your time up unless your delegating that responsibility to the tech??

Type-IV stone: Patients understand one thing above all others, that being FIT. Type-II stone has a setting expansion 10 times higher, and this is one of the reasons dentures do no fit. All steps are additive, all errors cumulative. Given the minimal difference in costs between the 2 stone materials, why not use the better product?

Extractions and costs: The denture mills (local) charge $85 for s simple extraction, and I charge $150. To the price shopper I flat out tell them to go to say Affordable Dentures. The average fee for private practices is what I charge, and they do NOT perform a bone graft. If they offer it, the graft is charged @ $300 - $800 per socket. Therefore, to answer your questions, (1) the profit margin is low as the grafting materials are expensive, though I seriously doubt you have ever priced these out, (2) the grafts are the norm in higher end practices and so you are mistaken here as well. If the graft is not performed the adjacent teeth will lean over, the ridge will resorb at an accelerated rate.
Tell you what. You deal with a fair amount of periodontists, so ask them. They will tell you I am charging damned little given what I am doing.
Or price these out for yourself. I buy a lot from Pearson. Surgical dental plaster as the matrix, allograft, metronidazole, and periacryl. Price these out, then tell me I am getting rich.

Cash discount of 30%: (1) I greatly reduce the AR, (2) I am not losing a dime.

Denture Mill: Our dentures are vastly superior, yet offered at prices that are competitive for the lowest cost denture. @ $300 cash price, production costs eat up all of it, as you well know. Again, we will try to upsell to a higher model, one where we actually show a profit, and where we fail to upsell, there is a rather substantial tax write-off that offsets elsewhere.
I offer products at their prices, to get them in the door. Even if I break even on this denture, I am helping that customer. No, I do not expect you to understand the concept.

Pay rates: I pay by the hour + paid holidays and vacation + medical benefits. Benefits and paid time off are based on 40 hours per week, meaning, for every 20 hours per week worked I contribute 33%, so for the person working 60 hours per week I pay 100% of their benefits costs. Do YOU offer this to your staff? I though not.
For stuff we send out, obvious we pay that lab the charged costs.

You are also wrong as to the time to produce Economy vs Premiere dentures. You of all people should know this. The economy has basic contouring, all the way to the other end, the premiere has full characterization, AND, you know full well the time to set monoplane teeth are NOT the same as to articulate say 30 degree teeth.
John, I expected better from you.

Chair-side: Impressions are 30 minutes, tops, if you are competent. Wax try-ins? Delivery is fast. For a full set you have 1.5 hours, max?

Adjustments: Each tech is responsible for their own adjustments. But, if the impressions are accurate, as is the model, if everything we do is toward accuracy, how many adjustments are there? If the tech is busy, yes, there are assistants who can do these.

My Economy denture is geared to competing in price with the mills, 3 of which are nearby. I offer the same price, though I try to upsell. The next denture, also excellent fit, is still a cheap denture in terms of both price as well as esthetics, but more durable due to 3-layered teeth (Economy is 2, and the mills all use single-layered teeth). Yes, the next 2 models (the 2 top units) are as you say, over $1,000.
 
Flipperlady

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You are also wrong as to the time to produce Economy vs Premiere dentures. You of all people should know this. The economy has basic contouring said:
Most of us are just bummed out that we didn't win the ipad. I may start drinking here in a minute .......
 
AJEL

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Andrew,

What is the max pressure your compressor runs at? That is, I thought you previously told me you have a commercial unit? Mine maxxes out @ 175 psi, 34.1 cfm, 120 gallon tank. I assume this would be sufficiant then to inject these materials? The point then, would it not be prudent to purchase say an extra compressor, just for these materials? Lowes and Sears both sell smaller units that deliver 150, even 175 psi, that will not break the bank.

Also, per relines of nylons. You and others have stated relining this material is nigh impossible. Why? Are you using the standard cold-cure systems for reline? If so, why not use the same material as the original denture, at the same pressure and temperature? In other words inject the reline material into the flasked denture? Yes, the procedure is different than the regular reline, but would not this solve the issues? That is, you would get bonding at the molecular level, as the materials are the same.
My commercial compressor has 160-190psi, in a 160 gallon tank , I have a main line to the lab 5/8 copper chilled with 2 dryers. The volume for air is sufficient, and would be for the flexite machine (I sold my flexite machine in 1985, when I stopped doing flexibles for a few years). I have a Myerson Flexipress the air connection from the machines regulator to the internal components is 2mm. more than enough for nylon materials, the PMMA Flexite MP requires a bit quicker and more forceful compression, also the flexipres has a max setting of 138psi 9.5 bar a smidge under what flexite recommends. And no you cannot compensate by increasing the temperature (only boils the material and discolors it),I have tried a preheated flask hard to hold but helped a little. You should check your TCS machines settings I believe they max out at 125psi (8.6 bar) every PMMA that I have seen for thermo seems to require 9.6 bar, you might want to exchange that TCS for a flexite machine.
now as for the MP you can reline it with PMMA of any kind.
All dentures in my lab are relined with the same material used in their construction if I made the denture I have on record the material I made it out of, I have practiced GMP for a little while. I am a registered vinyl lab back to 1979, so I have some of those to still contend with but Astron is only 3 miles from my place so I can always get fresh material. For allergy patients I still inject a few 1180 dentures per year.
As for using type IV stone it works fine for nylon, just the denture might get broken & depending on the expansion rate it might not fit as you seem to think, and shell blasting doesn't work (walnut shells are softer than type IV) and separators tend to be spotty, Sol recommends using type III vac mixed, smoother & doesn't break dentures during deflasking.
As for relining nylons, elsewhere on the forum it is discussed quite a bit, flasking is the only way, we call it jumping a case it takes a little longer than making a new in many instances. The one material is fluid entering the material in the flask is not so liquid, there is a solvent that can be used "Valplast Val-Fuse" being the most common nasty stuff, and there is often a line between the two and sometimes separation. Really not worth it most of the time, but a trick to keep in your bag when needed. Then if you are worried about contaminating the patient with an approved proven material like the PMMA's you should check the chemistry on nylon fusion chemicals.
I have to time myself so as to not spend to much DLN and I have some bruxes to get back to now.
 
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AJEL

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I reset the timer
Pay rates: I pay by the hour + paid holidays and vacation + medical benefits. Benefits and paid time off are based on 40 hours per week, meaning, for every 20 hours per week worked I contribute 33%, so for the person working 60 hours per week I pay 100% of their benefits costs. Do YOU offer this to your staff? I though not.
You are correct I have no staff I am self employed and medical at the VA classified as a disabled veteran I obtain discounted services at the VA (prior to Clinton I was fortunate to only pay for meds.) this last year has bee a bit expensive with the current administration really increasing charges, and a few health challenges.
You are also wrong as to the time to produce Economy vs Premiere dentures. You of all people should know this. The economy has basic contouring, all the way to the other end, the premiere has full characterization, AND, you know full well the time to set monoplane teeth are NOT the same as to articulate say 30 degree teeth.
Actually I have been doing this stuff (my first set-up was in Jun 1967) Some cheap teeth can take longer that premium teeth, and depending on how cheap they can cause other problems down the line, I did an Immediate on Friday night the setup took around 3 hours I/I with Vita 3D masters & 23E Physioden posteriors, I had a upper this morning I set to a lower I did a few years ago (vita teeth) took me 20 min to set up (gotta love dogs she ate most of the old upper).

Adjustments: Each tech is responsible for their own adjustments. But, if the impressions are accurate, as is the model, if everything we do is toward accuracy, how many adjustments are there? If the tech is busy, yes, there are assistants who can do these.
I still wasn't aware that denturism was allowed in your state Dave?
 
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droberts

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Why do you guys even waste your time? Time for a New Years Party! Happy New Year to All:)
 
JohnWilson

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The site had been slow, I thought I would spark some fun.

Dr don't take offense but if you want to sell quality then charge for it and feel good about it but don't hide in the guise of low cost high end work as it just doesn't exist. If your in the business of Charity then more power too ya, I am in business to be profitable, charity is what I give outside of my business life.

As for grafting I assumed we were talking about denture patients and imd dentures so yes grafting every socket is NOT the norm. As for partially dentated patients then yes its beneficial but STILL NOT THE NORM on every case. As for the cost of the materials your right I would not know nor care, what I do know is that flat rating and using the words like every and all are telling.

For my staff they get Medical,dental and life ins, a matching 401k with a max of 2 weeks paid vacation and a week of sick days based on their tenure. They only have to work 40 hours a week to be eligible, not one of my employees has ever worked 60hrs in a week in the 25 years I have been in business. So I guess you assumed wrong. I can guarantee my techs would laugh at your compensation package along with what you require of them

As for your discounts unless your keeping cash off the books the 30% dose cost you something. LOL If your cash flow is so poor that you can afford to loose 30% to try and not have an AR then perhaps you could have your techs collect the money for ya as well.

As for techs doing chair-side adjustments just another value add service I imagine. What training are you providing for this? Is this actually legal, do the techs have to be a RDA or are there no regulations for them to be in the mouth?

As for time to do a job right, 1.5 hours is AWESOME, I am sure your techs can do it all as it seems like they are.
 
droberts

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The site had been slow, I thought I would spark some fun.

Dr don't take offense but if you want to sell quality then charge for it and feel good about it but don't hide in the guise of low cost high end work as it just doesn't exist. If your in the business of Charity then more power too ya, I am in business to be profitable, charity is what I give outside of my business life.

As for grafting I assumed we were talking about denture patients and imd dentures so yes grafting every socket is NOT the norm. As for partially dentated patients then yes its beneficial but STILL NOT THE NORM on every case. As for the cost of the materials your right I would not know nor care, what I do know is that flat rating and using the words like every and all are telling.

For my staff they get Medical,dental and life ins, a matching 401k with a max of 2 weeks paid vacation and a week of sick days based on their tenure. They only have to work 40 hours a week to be eligible, not one of my employees has ever worked 60hrs in a week in the 25 years I have been in business. So I guess you assumed wrong. I can guarantee my techs would laugh at your compensation package along with what you require of them

As for your discounts unless your keeping cash off the books the 30% dose cost you something. LOL If your cash flow is so poor that you can afford to loose 30% to try and not have an AR then perhaps you could have your techs collect the money for ya as well.

As for techs doing chair-side adjustments just another value add service I imagine. What training are you providing for this? Is this actually legal, do the techs have to be a RDA or are there no regulations for them to be in the mouth?

As for time to do a job right, 1.5 hours is AWESOME, I am sure your techs can do it all as it seems like they are.

Cant wait to see his response to that. Sit down, shut up and hang on:)
 
AJEL

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You Might Be A REDNECK DENTIST if..........
-instead of Nitrous you ask your patient to "pull my finger."
-you have more curtains in your pick-up than you do in your office.
-chiggers are included in your list of "top 5 dental hygiene concerns."
-your lab coat has the sleeves cut off.
-your dental school song was "Dueling Banjos."
-you keep a can of Raid in each operatory.
-you clean your fingernails with a Cavitron.
-there are more than 5 old Burger King bags on you desk.
-you wonder how your staff can keep the restroom so clean.
-you almost quit dental school because Dad was opening a Lube Rack.
-your patients complain the ceiling fan is blowing too hard.
-you think Volvo is part of a woman's anatomy.
-the pen at your check out desk has a chain on it.
-your dental assistant can hear your car before she can see it.
-you use the words debridement and divorce interchangeably.
-after a haircut you look like Willie Nelson.
-your largest monthly office expense is from your taxidermist.
-your patients ask if they can wear a mask too.
-your assistant has to start suction by sucking hard on a plastic tube then lowering the end into a bucket.
-your Website is located in the corner near the ceiling.
-your high speed is made by Black and Decker.
-you have a velvet picture of Elvis in your waiting room.
-you use the term over yonder' instead of distal.


Opps this might have been the wrong thread. But talking about extractions
someone might nok know this word "debridement"




The dentist was striving to extract a tooth, but every time he got ready to proceed, the patient clamped his jaws. At last, he took his assistant aside and told her at the very moment he poised the forceps, to give the patient's balls a vicious pinch.

The pinch was administered, the nervous patient's mouth flew open, and the tooth was easily removed.

"Didn't hurt, did it?" asked the dentist.

"Not too much," replied the patient, "but who would have thought the root went that deep?!"
 
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drm313mac

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The site had been slow, I thought I would spark some fun.

Dr don't take offense but if you want to sell quality then charge for it and feel good about it but don't hide in the guise of low cost high end work as it just doesn't exist. If your in the business of Charity then more power too ya, I am in business to be profitable, charity is what I give outside of my business life.

As for grafting I assumed we were talking about denture patients and imd dentures so yes grafting every socket is NOT the norm. As for partially dentated patients then yes its beneficial but STILL NOT THE NORM on every case. As for the cost of the materials your right I would not know nor care, what I do know is that flat rating and using the words like every and all are telling.

For my staff they get Medical,dental and life ins, a matching 401k with a max of 2 weeks paid vacation and a week of sick days based on their tenure. They only have to work 40 hours a week to be eligible, not one of my employees has ever worked 60hrs in a week in the 25 years I have been in business. So I guess you assumed wrong. I can guarantee my techs would laugh at your compensation package along with what you require of them

As for your discounts unless your keeping cash off the books the 30% dose cost you something. LOL If your cash flow is so poor that you can afford to loose 30% to try and not have an AR then perhaps you could have your techs collect the money for ya as well.

As for techs doing chair-side adjustments just another value add service I imagine. What training are you providing for this? Is this actually legal, do the techs have to be a RDA or are there no regulations for them to be in the mouth?

As for time to do a job right, 1.5 hours is AWESOME, I am sure your techs can do it all as it seems like they are.

"Low cost high end ... just doesn't exist."
In your lab, I agree. Perhaps where you are in California, this is totally true. Perhaps even in mosty of the country, you are correct.

By having excellent impressions, accurate models, WHY does an economy denture have to cost a lot? Basic monoplane teeth, very little additional tech time beyond the very basics, so why does it have to be expensive? Why is it nearly all believe a low-cost denture cannot fit correctly?
I am not saying my economy denture is a high end denture --- only that it fits correctly and will last longer than other economy dentures from the mills.

Grafting every socket is not the norm, and I agree to this. Then again, I have been grafting every socket since soon after leaving dental school, years before it became remotely popular. Why? Because it is the right thing to do. No? Had I grafted all the ridges of all your denture patients, your life would be so much easier.
It is the right thing to do.

Insurances: Your employees only have to work 40 hours to be eligible. Gee. Mine are eligible even if they work 1 hour per week, and what percentage they work determines the percentage I will contribute. 60 hours and they have no deduction. As for the specific benefits, I offer a cafeteria plan. For example the manager has excellent medical from her husband, and needs everything going toward retirement.
In other words you misread, again.

Cash discount: You misread and misunderstood, again, but what else is new? Let me attempt to explain in simpler English.
For X I require $300 minimum, and so I increase the price such that when I give a cash / telecheck discount of 30% the amount comes to $300, meaning the quoted price is $428 [$428 - 30% = $300]. Why? Why do it, that is? Different insurances signed on whereas they require a 15% discount, in return for which I receive payment in full in 15 days. Under this system the insurance company receives what they require, yet, the the cash customer is not being penalized.
That $128 is a tax write-off (optional),as it is discounted from the original sum. Basically, it can be, though I have never done so.

Now, in your states, this cannot be written off, and again, this is dependent on each state. While I practice in Ohio, the LLC is domesticated in Wyoming. I have never once taken the write-off, but legally I can, and no, I do not expect you to understand.

Chairside work. Upon training, any assistant can do certain intra-oral functions, and the same applies to techs, under direct supervision, and when certified (documented training) in certain areas, under indirect supervision. Besides, when I or another doc is present, WHY are you assuming a tech is not qualified to do the work?

1.5 hours was stated as the max time spent CHAIRSIDE, not the max spent making the denture. Duh.

I came here with the intent of asking specific questions, yet all you seem capable of is arguing. John, if you did not know the answer, a simple "I don't know" would have sufficed.
 
Flipperlady

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stressed spelled backwards is desserts
 
drm313mac

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My commercial compressor has 160-190psi, in a 160 gallon tank , I have a main line to the lab 5/8 copper chilled with 2 dryers. The volume for air is sufficient, and would be for the flexite machine (I sold my flexite machine in 1985, when I stopped doing flexibles for a few years). I have a Myerson Flexipress the air connection from the machines regulator to the internal components is 2mm. more than enough for nylon materials, the PMMA Flexite MP requires a bit quicker and more forceful compression, also the flexipres has a max setting of 138psi 9.5 bar a smidge under what flexite recommends. And no you cannot compensate by increasing the temperature (only boils the material and discolors it),I have tried a preheated flask hard to hold but helped a little. You should check your TCS machines settings I believe they max out at 125psi (8.6 bar) every PMMA that I have seen for thermo seems to require 9.6 bar, you might want to exchange that TCS for a flexite machine.
now as for the MP you can reline it with PMMA of any kind.
All dentures in my lab are relined with the same material used in their construction if I made the denture I have on record the material I made it out of, I have practiced GMP for a little while. I am a registered vinyl lab back to 1979, so I have some of those to still contend with but Astron is only 3 miles from my place so I can always get fresh material. For allergy patients I still inject a few 1180 dentures per year.
As for using type IV stone it works fine for nylon, just the denture might get broken & depending on the expansion rate it might not fit as you seem to think, and shell blasting doesn't work (walnut shells are softer than type IV) and separators tend to be spotty, Sol recommends using type III vac mixed, smoother & doesn't break dentures during deflasking.
As for relining nylons, elsewhere on the forum it is discussed quite a bit, flasking is the only way, we call it jumping a case it takes a little longer than making a new in many instances. The one material is fluid entering the material in the flask is not so liquid, there is a solvent that can be used "Valplast Val-Fuse" being the most common nasty stuff, and there is often a line between the two and sometimes separation. Really not worth it most of the time, but a trick to keep in your bag when needed. Then if you are worried about contaminating the patient with an approved proven material like the PMMA's you should check the chemistry on nylon fusion chemicals.
I have to time myself so as to not spend to much DLN and I have some bruxes to get back to now.

I did not purchase the Flexite machine as I did not want to be stuck with only Flaxite. The tcs seems more versatile.

So the Astron is nylon, along with others. What are the working conditions of the vinyls? Who even sells vinyl? I will assume this is flexible partial only? Are there any manufacturers for vinyl base-plate? I would like to experiment with some of these, with models.

Allergy patients, which denture material is easiest to work with, both now and the eventual reline?

Say we use Type-III for the reasons you mention; which brand is best, in terms of the lowest setting expansion and therefore the most accurate model? What type of seperator is used for Type-III models?

Andrew, I am willing to use PMMA, if I can get rid of the excess monomer.

No, Ohio does not allow denturists, and while I had one here recently, chairside he was under my license, direct, and employed as a tech. What I discovered though, his knowledge was inferior to that of most of you, even regarding PMMA. I still have a high regard for true denturists, just not of this particular one.
 
Flipperlady

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Couldn't you just inject Lucitone 199 into your TCS machine and dry cook the acrylic at the temp for TCS appliances? The monomer would be burned off.
 
drm313mac

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Couldn't you just inject Lucitone 199 into your TCS machine and dry cook the acrylic at the temp for TCS appliances? The monomer would be burned off.

You mean, after processing, heat up the finished denture to a temperature > 66 Celsius, to drive off the excess monomer? IF this would not do damage to the denture and there is no reason to believe it would (scalding coffee is well over that temp),this might do the trick. What about residual monomer inside the acrylic? Would the porosities allow vapor to escape?

Is Lucitone better than Diamond-D, heat cure? Which is the best heat-cure PMMA?

Do different PMMA brands have different distortion rates? I would assume so.

Which is soft to the tissues, slightly flexible, yet still durable w/o taking on odors and stains? I always assumed these properties are mutually exclusive of one another.
 
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You mean, after processing, heat up the finished denture to a temperature > 66 Celsius, to drive off the excess monomer? IF this would not do damage to the denture and there is no reason to believe it would (scalding coffee is well over that temp),this might do the trick. What about residual monomer inside the acrylic? Would the porosities allow vapor to escape?

Is Lucitone better than Diamond-D, heat cure? Which is the best heat-cure PMMA?

Do different PMMA brands have different distortion rates? I would assume so.
Which is soft to the tissues, slightly flexible, yet still durable w/o taking on odors and stains? I always assumed these properties are mutually exclusive of one another.

I was being silly. To be honest, in my humble opinion, you are way off and need to go back to square one.
The new acrylics have very little residual monomer when cured correctly, even with auto cure acrylic the monomer eventually gases off.
Until you have a firm grasp on the differences between PMMA acrylic and flexible materials then the conversation is redundant.
 
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drm313mac

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I was being silly. To be honest, in my humble opinion, you are way off and need to go back to square one.
The new acrylics have very little residual monomer when cured correctly, even with auto cure acrylic the monomer eventually gases off.
Until you have a firm grasp on the differences between PMMA acrylic and flexible materials then the conversation is redundant.

You are of course totally correct.

I was asking questions for the purpose of learning, and this is a waste of my time and yours.
You do not know the answers, nor do you care to discover them.

I had hoped to learn from you, the techs, but instead I should spend my time asking those who invent the material. With very few exceptions such as AJ, TechArtisan, Ken, a couple more, speaking with the techs is a complete and total waste of time. All you know is ridicule and insults.
 

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