Dandy

bigj1972

bigj1972

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That's a rep's job, to promote the thing they have and hope you buy it. After that, they'll be back in a couple years with a new one to promote it's much better than the old one they sold you.
If I'm going to build a new deck, I take advise from a carpenter, not a hammer salesman. Otherwise I'd have a closet full of hammers, but still not know how to build sh#t.
 
rkm rdt

rkm rdt

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That's a rep's job, to promote the thing they have and hope you buy it. After that, they'll be back in a couple years with a new one to promote it's much better than the old one they sold you.
If I'm going to build a new deck, I take advise from a carpenter, not a hammer salesman. Otherwise I'd have a closet full of hammers, but still not know how to build sh#t.
exactly
In fact the best advice this carpenter can give you is to learn how to use the more advanced tools.
Nobody uses a hammer anymore.
 
Car 54

Car 54

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And once you learn to use the advanced tools, you'll have a better idea of if you really need to buy the new and improved version. It may have more bells and whistles to try to dazzle us into buying it, but are they really an improvement on what we're already using, will it really help?

For me, I was so glad when they came out with this new and improved model :)

12518.jpg
 
bigj1972

bigj1972

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exactly
In fact the best advice this carpenter can give you is to learn how to use the more advanced tools.
Nobody uses a hammer anymore.
Until the electricity goes out.
Of course you could outsource to increase profit.
bad-carpentry.2.jpg
 
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RDA

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If IOS is a 'percieved market need' its because reps are pushing it, the magazines are pushing it, and dandy is of course pushing it. Nobody looking for an IOS has any real world experience of how they work until they pony up and buy one, use it for a year, and decide its not for them or its the best thing ever. I have a client who bought a brand new omnicam, he only uses it for aligners. Its just another tool and many successful offices have built the practice around IOS and chairside, others put it on ebay and take a loss.
Something to think about, depending on your age and how many more years you plan to operate your lab, is that the younger dentists are being taught to use IOS in dental school. Older dentists are bringing it in to keep their practices up-to-date, and attractive for future growth and then sale upon retirement. In my opinion, to keep your lab viable, it's best to have a foot in both worlds. Analog and digital. Adapt.
 
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it's best to have a foot in both worlds. Analog and digital. Adapt.
THIS, 1000 times this

for us dentists at least

Going to be a lot of treatments done by the next generation of dentists that may have been prevented by a great restoration made with the lost wax technique.
 
Affinity

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I dont think anyone doubts the efficiency of going digital, its been a life-saver for me... Its freed me from opaquing little metal thimbles.. I would never go back..

It makes you wonder why so many Drs are hesitant to adapt, even with free dandy scanners. Its because there is a pesky human attached somewhere at the end of the scanner that makes the crown.. We are the hammer, looking for a nail.
 
Affinity

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Ive had the capability to print models and take IOS for many years, and nobody sends scans, even Drs with scanners! I simply say I prefer working on a stone model. If they want me to make the crown, they take an impression. If they want to scan it, they can send it literally anywhere, but they choose to not use their investment and send it to me.. because the scanner doesn't make the crown.

Ive had my foot in both worlds and to me, in my lab, I like working on a stone model, with a stone die you can still see bur marks in, if its more work, so be it. If that makes me a caveman, or an Atelier Dentaire, I dont care anymore. The only thing that matters is the final product, everything else gets thrown away..
My interest in dental technology didnt start with staring at a computer screen all day, and my future wont either hopefully.
 
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So I know from lurking here over the years that it's been tried before, but I just wanted to post up here that I am evaluating the "Lab provided IOS" model first hand.

Company is Dandy (https://www.meetdandy.com/),and in my brief discussion with their Lab director, it looks like they are doing in-house work and are also contracting out to regional labs to do some?

3Shape Trios 3 scanners are given to the practices, they have a custom software I think that uses 3Shapes lab partners, no commitment, minimum monthly lab bill or return the scanner.

Interested if any of the NYC regional labs have anything to share about them.

My office staff has training at the end of the month, will let you know if this ends up being more than just a fraction of my lab bill. No-penalty contract/agreement says I agree to make them my primary lab (and they will be for the things I intend to use it with).

I am ultimately interested in "open ecosystem" IOSes (Medit i700, etc.) but haven't invested yet, and I am hoping this is going to be a try before you buy (especially for my staff).
How satisfied are you with Dandy?Crowns, dentures, splints etc. Thanks
 
sidesh0wb0b

sidesh0wb0b

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Something to think about, depending on your age and how many more years you plan to operate your lab, is that the younger dentists are being taught to use IOS in dental school. Older dentists are bringing it in to keep their practices up-to-date, and attractive for future growth and then sale upon retirement. In my opinion, to keep your lab viable, it's best to have a foot in both worlds. Analog and digital. Adapt.
the younger docs are being taught to use OLD ios tech in school.....as my friend in dental school keeps complaining about. lol just FYI
 
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So.. I was a curious little bee and decided to see what the expectations were for the remote designers and applied. Mainly I was curious about the product produced, the allure of the whole idea and if it's actually effective. It's great if you have no standard for yourself or this industry, and are extremely green on both doctor and tech sides.

Designers are assigned to a region of the mouth, posteriors or anteriors, and then subdivided into only designing single units or multiple units (up to 25-30 units a day for everyone... which is a snooze fest). I was told doctor scans are never rejected for any reason and they rate scans as a TOM 0- 5. Tom= tissue over margin, TOM 0 being clear TOM 5 being fubar. You are to alter said scan (even if a TOM 5) and make a margin, design your crown and send it off. The funny thing is, you have a supervisor who can change your final design before sending it to mill and if your crown doesn't fit or doctor rejects it (even if the margin was a TOM 5),you get dinged and after so many dings you get a 'talking' to, which they call continuing education- listen guys, I don't need to attend a hogwarts class to read invisible margins, I'd rather avada kedavra myself at this point in my career.

They boasted themselves on quality but yet don't expect quality from their doctors. Seems like the place to go if you don't want to be held accountable for your work. For doctors who do care about your work, you will always be flipping a coin for your final product- you're better off buying your own scanner and forming/ building a relationship with a lab so you can gain consistency, true quality and longevity. Nice things aren't free. Us labs invest in our business to improve and stay with the industry and doctors that we want to work with, do the same.

You also cant control where and how your product is processed either. You could have a great design but then have it be botched on the back end. It's a Glidewell that hasn't worked out its kinks. Glidewell would certainly blow them out of the water, if they formed a contract with 3shape and started shelling out scanners. At least Glidewell, has some standard of quality.

I'm not surprised with it coming from non dental business guys, I've actually heard of them from attending Penn. So lurk away. I'm not saying they're not smart or capable but it's lacking the full scope of the process and therefore will always fall short, especially for those wanting quality. It goes back to the triangle of cost-time-quality.
 
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Maybe I should've italicized *some.* Let's not get carried away...

The only experience I've had with them was their removables (which I don't do). We used to have a dr out of school, who wanted to use them instead of our local removable lab (for cost). They did call regarding impressions and treatment plans- better than what dandy would do. By no means am I fan of or on the soapbox for Glidewell, was just trying to show some relativity.
 
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Maybe I should've italicized *some.* Let's not get carried away...

The only experience I've had with them was their removables (which I don't do). We used to have a dr out of school, who wanted to use them instead of our local removable lab (for cost). They did call regarding impressions and treatment plans- better than what dandy would do. By no means am I fan of or on the soapbox for Glidewell, was just trying to show some relativity.
Of course. I understood that you understood that we had an understanding. Yes, regarding Dandy. They approached us, we politely declined.
 
Affinity

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A lab that isnt really a lab, that doesnt even compare to glidewell quality? Sign me up.
If gimmicks like this really worked, wouldnt amazon be giving out free Alexas? Maybe they do?

I actually just had a Dr say they were trying a new lab 'to get a free scanner', they already have an omnicam, I asked 'is it dandy?' "yes, do you know them?"
"yes, they arent a lab, they just outsource your file to many different labs" "oh I didnt know that"
I will let everyone know how this works out for him, knowing his standards, I dont imagine it will last long, I might even throw a price increase in when he comes back, just so he has the satisfaction of knowing his crowns are made in the same small town he lives in. Thats the only gimmick I have.
 
rkm rdt

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A lab that isnt really a lab, that doesnt even compare to glidewell quality? Sign me up.
If gimmicks like this really worked, wouldnt amazon be giving out free Alexas? Maybe they do?

I actually just had a Dr say they were trying a new lab 'to get a free scanner', they already have an omnicam, I asked 'is it dandy?' "yes, do you know them?"
"yes, they arent a lab, they just outsource your file to many different labs" "oh I didnt know that"
I will let everyone know how this works out for him, knowing his standards, I dont imagine it will last long, I might even throw a price increase in when he comes back, just so he has the satisfaction of knowing his crowns are made in the same small town he lives in. Thats the only gimmick I have.
docs him too
 
Cdtflb

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So.. I was a curious little bee and decided to see what the expectations were for the remote designers and applied. Mainly I was curious about the product produced, the allure of the whole idea and if it's actually effective. It's great if you have no standard for yourself or this industry, and are extremely green on both doctor and tech sides.

Designers are assigned to a region of the mouth, posteriors or anteriors, and then subdivided into only designing single units or multiple units (up to 25-30 units a day for everyone... which is a snooze fest). I was told doctor scans are never rejected for any reason and they rate scans as a TOM 0- 5. Tom= tissue over margin, TOM 0 being clear TOM 5 being fubar. You are to alter said scan (even if a TOM 5) and make a margin, design your crown and send it off. The funny thing is, you have a supervisor who can change your final design before sending it to mill and if your crown doesn't fit or doctor rejects it (even if the margin was a TOM 5),you get dinged and after so many dings you get a 'talking' to, which they call continuing education- listen guys, I don't need to attend a hogwarts class to read invisible margins, I'd rather avada kedavra myself at this point in my career.

They boasted themselves on quality but yet don't expect quality from their doctors. Seems like the place to go if you don't want to be held accountable for your work. For doctors who do care about your work, you will always be flipping a coin for your final product- you're better off buying your own scanner and forming/ building a relationship with a lab so you can gain consistency, true quality and longevity. Nice things aren't free. Us labs invest in our business to improve and stay with the industry and doctors that we want to work with, do the same.

You also cant control where and how your product is processed either. You could have a great design but then have it be botched on the back end. It's a Glidewell that hasn't worked out its kinks. Glidewell would certainly blow them out of the water, if they formed a contract with 3shape and started shelling out scanners. At least Glidewell, has some standard of quality.

I'm not surprised with it coming from non dental business guys, I've actually heard of them from attending Penn. So lurk away. I'm not saying they're not smart or capable but it's lacking the full scope of the process and therefore will always fall short, especially for those wanting quality. It goes back to the triangle of cost-time-quality.
You hit the nail on the head here. It really came off so great initially, but over time it has gotten worse, expectations to produce are beginning to get out of hand. Designers who spit out work are praised which screws the designers that take their time to make sure things are done properly. I only see it getting worse unfortunately. But the other side of the coin is working for my local labs making 21 an hour lucky enough if they offer benefits. Sad that I had once considered 60k salary unobtainable, so maybe I am a sellout, but what's my Alternative? Work my fingers to the bone for my local lab and be harrassed in person. I just talked to my old co-worker from one of the labs, he got covid, reported to the higher ups about this and had the govt issued covid test result. Well guess what, that result isn't good enough, he has to get another covid test at CVS to prove he has it. So, deal with micromanaging in my own home in my PJs or be harassed by the local lab owners (to the point of having panic attacks) that have zero respect for the techs they have working there. I'd love it if I could get paid what I deserve and work for a small lab, but right now I'll take this.

But also good on you for posting how it works at dandy
 
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