Formlabs 2 models

[LuthorCorp]

my max full plate of models 50 micron 1 hour .what you guys doing 1 micron layers

Yeah what machine is this? I rarely see sub hour outside ideal presentation settings. Full tray is that flat or angled for max capacity? Supports or not?

I could see flat, direct to tray (Without support),and thin cutting models could get you in that hour strike zone.

 

[Contraluz]

Yeah what machine is this?

Well, according to his link, it is this printer:

Phrozen Sonic 4K 3D Printer

Fast: Available in ULTIMATE (US Only) <Buy Now> Specially designed for the dental industry, the Sonic 4K offers built-in parameters for dental applications that work to print out all the dental models you need with high precision and accuracy.With a super-high resolution of 722 PPI, this...

phrozen3d.com

At a killer prize of $1,400.-

 

[Bryce @ WhipMix]

Straight from my computer. 24 quads, 11 dies. 50 micron layers. Under one hour. That's without using fast print mode. Buy as many Formlabs as you want, you'll never get close to this quality and production capacity for the money. The Asiga Pro 4K is 25 grand. And you OWN IT.

 

[TheLabGuy]

Straight from my computer. 24 quads, 11 dies. 50 micron layers. Under one hour. That's without using fast print mode. Buy as many Formlabs as you want, you'll never get close to this quality and production capacity for the money. The Asiga Pro 4K is 25 grand. And you OWN IT.

Okay, that's the Asiga Pro 4K, what about the Asiga Max (at $12K)? What would be time on that with a full tray at 50 micron?

 

[Bryce @ WhipMix]

Okay, that's the Pro 4K, what about the Asiga Max (at 12K)?

Hey Rob!

So in terms of speed, the Asiga Max is identical to the Pro 4K. Also, I believe your price estimate is a little high. The Max is under $11,000 these days. Not to mention a HUGE aspect of this machine that no other 3D printer can compete with: there are over 450 resins validated and ready to print on the Asiga. That's probably about 400 more than any other machine on the market. Don't buy a printer that locks you in to anything. The waters of freedom are fine

 

[TheLabGuy]

Hey Rob!

So in terms of speed, the Asiga Max is identical to the Pro 4K. Also, I believe your price estimate is a little high. The Max is under $11,000 these days. Not to mention a HUGE aspect of this machine that no other 3D printer can compete with: there are over 450 resins validated and ready to print on the Asiga. That's probably about 400 more than any other machine on the market. Don't buy a printer that locks you in to anything. The waters of freedom are fine

I'm probably going to get into trouble for saying this but the $12k was a WhipMix quote from last week. As you probably know now, I'm getting ready to pull the trigger any day now, just sorting out the speed advantages at 50 micron, price, and size of build plate.

 

[Bryce @ WhipMix]

I'm probably going to get into trouble for saying this but the $12k was a WhipMix quote from last week. As you probably know now, I'm getting ready to pull the trigger any day now, just sorting out the speed advantages at 50 micron, price, and size of build plate.

It may be that with tax and shipping, probably. As you already know, myself and the other guys here in tech support are always willing to help in any way we can. If there's anything you need, just let me know.

 

[LuthorCorp]

Straight from my computer. 24 quads, 11 dies. 50 micron layers. Under one hour. That's without using fast print mode. Buy as many Formlabs as you want, you'll never get close to this quality and production capacity for the money. The Asiga Pro 4K is 25 grand. And you OWN IT.

Not to be THAT guy but like every other printer I see has these ideal builds that have sub hour or "30 min full tray" options and even the printing software estimates lower times than actual production. 1h becomes 3h, because the arches weren't made as short as possible and turns out narrow dies do need supports or stuff like that.

How replicable is this full tray 1 hour print in normal case conditions and not a full tray of copied models?

 

[Bryce @ WhipMix]

Not to be THAT guy but like every other printer I see has these ideal builds that have sub hour or "30 min full tray" options and even the printing software estimates lower times than actual production. 1h becomes 3h, because the arches weren't made as short as possible and turns out narrow dies do need supports or stuff like that.

How replicable is this full tray 1 hour print in normal case conditions and not a full tray of copied models?

That's fair. Fortunately, Asiga Composer is pretty darn accurate due to the positioning encoders in the machine. They update the printer's firmware in real time, and translate that information into the nesting software. Pretty solid system, really. It may fluctuate by a few minutes, but overall, the time estimation is very accurate.

If you look closely, you can see that the models I nested in the photo have articulator attachments. They weren't trimmed to minimal height or anything. It's pretty typical for what you'd model build in your lab. The sub 1hr time estimate is not a sales gimmick on the Asiga. It's everyday reality. Obviously if the models are a little taller, it may be an hour and a few minutes, and if they're a bit shorter, it may be 55 minutes.

 

[LuthorCorp]

That's fair. Fortunately, Asiga Composer is pretty darn accurate due to the positioning encoders in the machine. They update the printer's firmware in real time, and translate that information into the nesting software. Pretty solid system, really. It may fluctuate by a few minutes, but overall, the time estimation is very accurate.

If you look closely, you can see that the models I nested in the photo have articulator attachments. They weren't trimmed to minimal height or anything. It's pretty typical for what you'd model build in your lab. The sub 1hr time estimate is not a sales gimmick on the Asiga. It's everyday reality. Obviously if the models are a little taller, it may be an hour and a few minutes, and if they're a bit shorter, it may be 55 minutes.

Good to know, my experience so far has been most estimations are inaccurate and I don't really factor them in, at this point its never about speed for us but more about replicable consistent accuracy, getting big batch of models printed for the next day is fine as long as the quality is there and isn't in doubt, I have cycled through a few systems now where accuracy is the issue, perhaps our bar is set high but I mean that's what we are trying to pay for so not unrealistic to want.

 

[Bryce @ WhipMix]

Good to know, my experience so far has been most estimations are inaccurate and I don't really factor them in, at this point its never about speed for us but more about replicable consistent accuracy, getting big batch of models printed for the next day is fine as long as the quality is there and isn't in doubt, I have cycled through a few systems now where accuracy is the issue, perhaps our bar is set high but I mean that's what we are trying to pay for so not unrealistic to want.

I share your mentality. I go for quality and consistency.

 

[zero_zero]

On what? An hour, seriously?

They measure time differently down in Aussieland...

 

[Foggy_in_RI]

IS there a reason Asiga does not publish their build speed? I know the layer thickness changes the build speed, but Asiga is one of the few DLP printers out there that lacks a statement such as "Build Speed: 30mm / hr @ 50um layers".

This makes it so much easier for someone to estimate their print time. You do big bulky models- no problem, what's the typical height divided by the build speed. Like to print in vertical orientation and maximize the space- no problem, what's the max height divided by the build speed.

 

[Bryce @ WhipMix]

IS there a reason Asiga does not publish their build speed? I know the layer thickness changes the build speed, but Asiga is one of the few DLP printers out there that lacks a statement such as "Build Speed: 30mm / hr @ 50um layers".

This makes it so much easier for someone to estimate their print time. You do big bulky models- no problem, what's the typical height divided by the build speed. Like to print in vertical orientation and maximize the space- no problem, what's the max height divided by the build speed.

Because they're honest. Print speed depends upon the resin being printed. Each resin has a different cure curve.

 

[Foggy_in_RI]

Because they're honest. Print speed depends upon the resin being printed. Each resin has a different cure curve.

I hear what you are saying, but to what degree does that impact the print time? SO much that an approximation is not possible? I mean come on- list it based on the Asiga brand resin. Don't give me the excuse of honesty....

 

[Bryce @ WhipMix]

I hear what you are saying, but to what degree does that impact the print time? SO much that an approximation is not possible? I mean come on- list it based on the Asiga brand resin. Don't give me the excuse of honesty....

It varies greatly. I'm not giving you an excuse seeing as I gave exact numbers with our Whip Mix resin above.

 

[Foggy_in_RI]

It varies greatly. I'm not giving you an excuse seeing as I gave exact numbers with our Whip Mix resin above.

I wouldn't say your post had exact numbers in regards to the build speed (xx mm / hour). From the picture you provided I can calculate that the build speed is approximately 22mm / hour.

 

[Bryce @ WhipMix]

I wouldn't say your post had exact numbers in regards to the build speed (xx mm / hour). From the picture you provided I can calculate that the build speed is approximately 22mm / hour.

Right, but that is based on two things: layer thickness (50 microns in this case) and resin (Whip Mix Verimodel OS). Change either of these variables, the build time will look quite different.

 

[Foggy_in_RI]

Right, but that is based on two things: layer thickness (50 microns in this case) and resin (Whip Mix Verimodel OS). Change either of these variables, the build time will look quite different.

Show me an example of a 50um model job that changes drastically when you change from the Asiga Model resin to another Model resin- I'm really asking cause I want to understand how drastic the difference is.

People can extrapolate the times based on thickness. Half the layers = approximately half the time. Double the layers = approximately double the amount of time.

 

[grantoz]

the difference with asiga over others is it prints the layer for the whole print at once rather than it tracing a line around what it prints this makes it faster and more accurate at the edges.i usualy print flat but not but normal thickness on the speed setting which it has and i always use, the print times get down to 45mins at times i find this the best way to print ,as i dont want to reprint everything again if something goes wrong and i dont like taking all the supports off either .another thing people dont realize is that its tuff to recalibrate formlab printers you have to send them away. the asiga takes 5 minutes. a lot of my clients and colleges have formlab printers that are 18 months to 2 years old and they really starting to become unreliable my 1st asiga is now 2 years old and it prints just like the 1st day i got it. buy want you want but im sticking with Asiga .