Medit/exocad Pains

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LarryRDC

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You don't really need to do a separate gingiva scan...just make sure you add a couple of scans to get your emergence profile during the Base model scan. Then just do the scanbody with the gingiva removed from the model. Edit out the extra crap around your scanbody
step by step pics.jpg
You'll end up with just 3 stls needed for your design. upperjaw, lowerjaw, and marker (scanbody)

As zero_zero said Collab may be more a little more complicated...but if you learn how it works it offers a lot more scanning options than exoscan. It also can save projector live by turning it off when not in use.

I know , it's a pain in theAZZ…..Be patient , there's always a learning curve with new stuff.

Obviously your support is not good. They should be helping transition through this.
 
esamuelr

esamuelr

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I am going to try this, but it seems it is much easier to just change the insertion direction to have the abutment proposal generated closer to the design you want than to add more control points. exocad sets the crown bottom according to the insertion direction whether implant or natural abutment. By not setting the insertion direction to be in parallel to the adjacent teeth you are opening your future crown design up to a lot of proximal interferences.

In the screen shot of post #52 the insertion direction automatically determined by exocad is not even close to what it should be especially on a cement retained implant crown. Maybe I am missing or misunderstanding something here?
Having a valid insertion direction is important. I make sure to confirm or adjust the main axis orientation even on our model scanned cases. That usually gives me an ideal path everytime and it is rare that exo gives me an insertion direction that is canted or significantly off.
 
esamuelr

esamuelr

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Sorry guys, but throwing this out in case someone can help tonight.
Everything looked beautiful in scanning but once I opened to start the design process the ging is nothing again. I took a screenshot of each scan, the alignment, and merged. Then the exocad showing where the gingival is a turd. Also has the scan strategy screen shot so you can see how it's set up.

View attachment 34788


And I tried to scan using exoscan instead of colab2017 but this message pops up
View attachment 34789

Sorry for being a downer guys.
This looks like the collab software is overlaying the scan body scan onto the gingival scan. I'm thinking if you trim the scan body scan so it is only the scan body showing, you should be good. Realistically you should be able to cut off half that scan body cylinder on the gingiva side and get a good alignment.
 
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@RileyS
If theres any way you could get together with @esamuelr for 0ne day...4 hours even, it would be the best money youve spent yet.

He explains well, then asked me to do it AND explain to him what Im doing so he knows I know, and Im not just clicking through a process. Most concise beneficial teaching Ive had.
 
esamuelr

esamuelr

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@RileyS
If theres any way you could get together with @esamuelr for 0ne day...4 hours even, it would be the best money youve spent yet.

He explains well, then asked me to do it AND explain to him what Im doing so he knows I know, and Im not just clicking through a process. Most concise beneficial teaching Ive had.
Thanks for the kind words User.
 
Car 54

Car 54

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It just seems to me there may be less confusion if Exocad would only allow Exoscan to be bundled
with their software, compared to the multilpe? flavors of scan software depending on the scanner.
That if that was nailed down and was a common baseline among all the Exocad users,
a person could get on more easily and spend the time in nailing down the design software itself?
 
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charles007

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Riley, your best bet is to day trip asap by car or air and spend the day with one of the guys on DLN. Trust me ! Teamviewer training doesn't work very well, been there done that ! I've also learned just about everybody using Exocad does things slightly different. Every time I've watched someone design I picked up tips !
Take several of your cases on this learning vacation trip.
FYI, at this time I don't know anyone using Exoscan, maybe its changed over the last few years ? but I know the workflow is smoother. Seems like Chris didn't install Exocan on my last update ? and I maybe wrong !
 
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Riley, your best bet is to day trip asap by car or air and spend the day with one of the guys on DLN. Trust me ! Teamviewer training doesn't work very well, been there done that ! I've also learned just about everybody using Exocad does things slightly different. Every time I've watched someone design I picked up tips !
Take several of your cases on this learning vacation trip.
FYI, at this time I don't know anyone using Exoscan, maybe its changed over the last few years ? but I know the workflow is smoother. Seems like Chris didn't install Exocan on my last update ? and I maybe wrong !
Hey Charles...ExoSCAN here!
 
Car 54

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It sounds like the same thing with zero, too.
 
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charles007

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When you snooze you lose .....haven't designed in well over a year
I will probably need help once I crank up my scanner !
 
DAL Claxton

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@Riley In ColLab, it tells you in the top left graphically, and the bottom of the page in text what the scanner wants at what point. When your gingiva disappears, it's because the scans are overlapping. The way ColLab tells what your Gingiva is, is by taking the initial jaw scan, and then the Gingiva scan, then only takes what's not part of the jaw, and that's the gingiva. So, when you scanned the model with the gingiva in it as part of the base jaw scan, you were removing that portion from the gingiva stl.

I can't be 100% sure with the missing contact information, but if it was there in the final merge in collab, and not there in exocad or the resulting STL. Please check when you're deleting unnecessary data that you only have the object you want to change showing during the edit phase.

Just like in exocad, the selection lasso will pick up any object (even behind what you're selecting). Utilize the top left view buttons, just like in exocad, to hide everything except the object you're working on.

We use 8+ Medit scanners in our company, integrated with Exocad. We never have unexpected missing data, I can always trace it back to an "oops" or miss-entered information in the DB.

I hope this helps, but please let me know if there's anything else we can work with.

- Josh
 
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omsk

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@RileyS

How are you setting up the order on exocad and how do you make your models?
I've never had an issue like you describe.

SCAN.JPG

This is how my screen looks before I start scanning an implant case.
This is an implant crown for #9 so you can see the scanning steps are as following:

Maxilla
1) Base: I scan the upper model with no scan body and no soft tissue
2) Scanbody: Scan model with scanbody and no soft tissue
3) Gingiva: Scan model with soft tissue in place and no scanbody

Mandible
4) Scan lower model or opposing

Both Arches:
5) Scan bite registration.

What collab does and it does it automatically.
It compares the base scan(the one with no soft tissue and no scanbody) to the scanbody scan and the gingiva scan and removes the base model so you are only left with the scan body or the gingiva for those 2 scans.

It seems to me that maybe you are scanning all of them with the soft tissue on? or maybe you are setting up the order incorrectly?
 
RileyS

RileyS

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I guess I'm full retard (used in proper context and not to cause offense). It's just like I'm speaking english but I need to learn Japanese. It just makes sense to me that if it wants me to scan ging and even align that portion of the ging scan I selected that it would know that was literally the gingiva! So weird. So many weird things to me. I'm just a dumb person is all I'm getting from this. And that when I flew out for training at the facility they didn't even have a scanner to be trained on so ZERO effing training on scanning!
But thanks @omsk, that's how mine is set up.
@DAL Claxton did you know that the 3 axis arm for scanning impressions was no longer included and that it was changed to an add-on feature and must be bought extra$$$? If so, when did you find out about that change? And do you know what your delivery time was on orders of a t500 back in October-December 2019?
 
DAL Claxton

DAL Claxton

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@RileyS This is actually a development we've only found out ourselves. Last year at the Chicago show I had a T500, and could not show the impression scanning as I was unaware of this. Now that they've let loose that the new cost is in there, I understand why it was disabled on that scanner. We've got a meeting set up with Medit at the show to.. discuss things. As for delivery times, we keep scanners in stock, and only on rare occasions have we not had one to immediately send to the customer if they've purchased one and paid for it. Usually Medit is fairly quick to send new stock, though I can recall a couple of time periods where the lead time was a few weeks longer.

There could have also been a customs hold-ups if you experienced a delay from your re-seller.

As for the scanning @omsk is 100% correct. the Gingiva is derived from the new gingiva scan detecting what's not there in the jaw scan, so if you have the gingiva in place on the initial jaw scan, you'll not have it there after the final merge. I've always scanned them together myself to save a scan (I was production at the time and had to scan/design/mill/finish my own work though). With together, you can always remove the scan body to get contacts, or remove contacts to catch interproximal scan-body areas. This way in the "scan body scan" window, all you do is highlight the scanbody and crop out everything else.

*Edit* we are also the repair center in the US, so it's also normal for us to have extra loaner scanners around for training purposes. If your reseller was out of stock, that could explain why they also did not have one for training purposes.

- Josh
 
RileyS

RileyS

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@RileyS This is actually a development we've only found out ourselves. Last year at the Chicago show I had a T500, and could not show the impression scanning as I was unaware of this. Now that they've let loose that the new cost is in there, I understand why it was disabled on that scanner. We've got a meeting set up with Medit at the show to.. discuss things. As for delivery times, we keep scanners in stock, and only on rare occasions have we not had one to immediately send to the customer if they've purchased one and paid for it. Usually Medit is fairly quick to send new stock, though I can recall a couple of time periods where the lead time was a few weeks longer.

There could have also been a customs hold-ups if you experienced a delay from your re-seller.

As for the scanning @omsk is 100% correct. the Gingiva is derived from the new gingiva scan detecting what's not there in the jaw scan, so if you have the gingiva in place on the initial jaw scan, you'll not have it there after the final merge. I've always scanned them together myself to save a scan (I was production at the time and had to scan/design/mill/finish my own work though). With together, you can always remove the scan body to get contacts, or remove contacts to catch interproximal scan-body areas. This way in the "scan body scan" window, all you do is highlight the scanbody and crop out everything else.

*Edit* we are also the repair center in the US, so it's also normal for us to have extra loaner scanners around for training purposes. If your reseller was out of stock, that could explain why they also did not have one for training purposes.

- Josh
Thanks Josh. So basically for a year, you've known that it didn't come with impression scanning capabilities since the chicago show is here again? I've been made to feel like it just barely happened two months ago.
Do you feel like 2.5 months is a long time to deliver a t500 ordered in October?
 
DAL Claxton

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I'm not sure the situation that your reseller is in, but I'm fairly certain we've had at least one order fulfilled from Medit since then, and sold off quite a few of those. As you can tell from the impression scanning, they're not the most open sometimes with developments, so perhaps Medit just hasn't shipped them new ones?

If they do not order often, they might not be as familiar with the customs procedures, or they might not be high on Medit's priority list. this could also explain if they only got new scanners 2-ish months ago, why they only now know about the impression scanning module addition. If they don't order often, their older stock would have still come with it activated as base.

- Josh
 
RileyS

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So I made it through a design and realized I didn't have enough space. Doc says to reduce prep. so i says to myself i says, "delete merged parts, go to expert and free form scan data." wouldn't let me unless I deleted constructed parts. So Bite the bullet and do it. Now I can virtually reduce the prep. Sadly I have to redesign. So I mill it and find out when I redid crown bottoms it didn't adapt to the newly reduced prep. So i have to remill. I really don't want to have to delete constructed parts so I can try again to virtual reduce prep. any way to keep the design? Also, why didn't it adapt to reduced prep? I can see where it I reduced and I can see how the crown follows the pre-virtual prep when I do a cut view
 
2thm8kr

2thm8kr

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So I made it through a design and realized I didn't have enough space. Doc says to reduce prep. so i says to myself i says, "delete merged parts, go to expert and free form scan data." wouldn't let me unless I deleted constructed parts. So Bite the bullet and do it. Now I can virtually reduce the prep. Sadly I have to redesign. So I mill it and find out when I redid crown bottoms it didn't adapt to the newly reduced prep. So i have to remill. I really don't want to have to delete constructed parts so I can try again to virtual reduce prep. any way to keep the design? Also, why didn't it adapt to reduced prep? I can see where it I reduced and I can see how the crown follows the pre-virtual prep when I do a cut view
This way requires you to remark the margin, etc.
Save your design as stl without the crown bottom in place.
In DentalDB mark the restoration as a wax up.
Click design, import the stl.file if the outer shell of your design
Immediately go to expert mode and make the adjustments to your jaw scan.
Mark the margin.
Click next. Exocad will calculate the wax up.
 
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MolarMania

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I must be living in a parallel universe.
My implant business is going crazy, and Ive never touched a scan body.
Scan Bodies help record the orientation of the platform and internal connections. Also the angle of the implant will be recorded. Just like when you take a bite scan it "overlays" the tooth scan surface. The digital file of each individual scan body will be overlayed onto the intra oral scan body. this will digitally record the position for the design software.
Hope this helps...
 
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