Burs for Zirconia

[RDA]

Looking for recommendations on plastic tweezers/hemostats, or rubber tipped tweezers/hemostats for holding green state zirconia. Possibly something that locks.

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

Looking for recommendations on plastic tweezers/hemostats, or rubber tipped tweezers/hemostats for holding green state zirconia. Possibly something that locks.

im using plastic college pliers from Nowak. tips are a bit large and bulky but trimming them down was easy.
i had been using metal ones but really was nervous about it and figured before i screw something up i should switch lol

 

[skim]

I just got these from Amazon. A set of 7 plastic tweezers for $5. They don't lock but they work well for picking up green state zirconia from dipping jars.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YU1U7F8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Car 54]

Why not just use (non latex if needed) gloves? Nothing works better than my fingers.
For dipping, I use baskets or cheap yellow plastic tweezers from ADS to retrieve the crowns out of the jar.
https://www.americandentalsupply.net/store/product.php/664.htm

 

[JMN]

8 pack for 3.50 https://www.sciplus.com/plastic-tweezers-42002-p

8 pack for 3.25 https://www.sciplus.com/loopend-tweezers-48709-p
hole about 9/16 by 3/8 so you can cradle instead of squeeze.

Plus, their catalog is hillarious.

 

[Car 54]

8 pack for 3.50 https://www.sciplus.com/plastic-tweezers-42002-p

8 pack for 3.25 https://www.sciplus.com/loopend-tweezers-48709-p
hole about 9/16 by 3/8 so you can cradle instead of squeeze.

Plus, their catalog is hillarious.

A lot cheaper than getting them from ADS

I like these (from your web page link) for using at the steamer in holding crowns a little more securely, more ridged: https://www.sciplus.com/curved-forceps-54066-p

 

[JMN]

A lot cheaper than getting them from ADS

I like these (from your web page link) for using at the steamer in holding crowns a little more securely, more ridged: https://www.sciplus.com/curved-forceps-54066-p

Agreed.
Monty Python's Flying Circus
Monty Python's Flying Crowns

 

[CoolHandLuke]

I understand your reasons Lindsay, but i'm only going to say i really am disappointed in the people here who accept faulty work coming from their machines, accepting it as Normal, and suggesting this is what happens for everyone. this is by far NOT the case for anyone who operates their milling or printing with Quality assurance and standard Quality Control checks in-and-out of the machines.

yes, I understand in this instance its not your bridge, not your mill, that does not mean these checks and balances don't apply. clearly whoever made this bridge for you needs their process examined.

the best way to mill a bridge is *right the first time* not "anything will do, even if i have to grind it"

you should not be accepting product from a machine that does not produce what you asked it to produce.

Measure your product qualitatively and modify the milling parameters to suit. the only part of this process that should be unacceptable is thinking that the machine and the CAM doesn't need modification straight out of the box. the people that do this need to have their products thoroughly examined.

all that being said, the ceramists i used to work with used to swear only by irrigated handpieces for grinding zirconia. as for the tools they used i can't say because i don't really know.

 

[RDA]

Why not just use (non latex if needed) gloves? Nothing works better than my fingers.
For dipping, I use baskets or cheap yellow plastic tweezers from ADS to retrieve the crowns out of the jar.
https://www.americandentalsupply.net/store/product.php/664.htm

What type of baskets?

 

[sirmorty]

Luke if you don't do the finishing of the final crown how could you possibly know what you designed/ milled is perfect?

 

[user name]

What type of baskets?

I got these from B&D. I think @rc75 has them too.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

Luke if you don't do the finishing of the final crown how could you possibly know what you designed/ milled is perfect?

thats why i left that lab. i got feedback things were wrong but i was tightly controlled to NOT modify the CAM or machines for fear of voided warranties and broken machines. so fine you get crowns with wrong bites and thats the and of the story.

what i can now prove beyond reasonable doubt is that the CAM is the biggest source of problems for people doing CADCAM. its a little field of data science called Metrology. download free Metrology software for most purposes on a free restricted Trial basis if you like.

here is a Metrology scan of a bridge, the dark blue is the edges of the designed bridge, while red and yellow and Green areas indicate how off the mill made it. we are comparing a scan of the milled bridge, to the CAD, 3 different tries at the same file.


now, after modifying only the CAM parameters i was able to make that same bridge to this tolderance:


this bridge is now perfectly milled to my design.

thats how i know how off it is even before the ceramists judge design and grind the heck out of it for funsies anyway.

 

[Car 54]

What type of baskets?

The ones from Ron, https://dentallabnetwork.com/forums/threads/dipping-jars-2.28615/

 

[sirmorty]

I used to do hand waxing back in the day and checked the waxup with the porcelain Tech.

I would put my own spin in the anteriors and put anatomy in there. I take it to him and he would say "What the hell is this? make them square so I can adjust them and not have to add to it"

I just wasted so much time in his eyes but how was I supposed to learn anything if I just continued to make square looking teeth.

I would always look at the finished product then try to mimic what he did. But rarely did he ever say yep that looks good. It never looked like my waxup in the end.

I think the same thing kinda happens with design and milling. You get caught up looking at it on a screen then it translates to a physical product and you see things differently. Especially as time passes. You see things you want to change.

I don't understand why people think you need to get it right, straight out of the mill? It happens I'm sure but there is nothing wrong with adjustment after.

It's the same people who say a crown should take a certain amount of mouse clicks.

That's really interesting Luke. Glad you shared that. I know what it feels like to be chasing your tail trying to solve problems. You can't really blame a lab for not wanting to mess with the machines, they are sold ' this push button and forget it" from the Dental companies. I'm glad people like you are out there figuring out the ins and outs of what's capable.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

i know exactly what you mean morty. what we had was an out-of-the-box imes that produced cases with mysteriously high bites. so we tested and found and solved that problem.

but precision is what all outsource centers should be capable of producing, expecially if you are sending bars and such. when people send to some place they expect to get back exactly what they asked for. that is quite literally the goal of this experiment - to prove it can be acheived, and that the CAM is the instrument of the precision here.

i'm not worried really, for crowns and such - but it is always helpful that the bite isn't off when it comes out of the mill. even if the shade isn't right, or the buccal walls are bulky.

if i can make a good bite, and acheive a good margin of accuracy, i'm set. i wont be sending out cases that need adjusting in those areas.

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

thats why i left that lab. i got feedback things were wrong but i was tightly controlled to NOT modify the CAM or machines for fear of voided warranties and broken machines. so fine you get crowns with wrong bites and thats the and of the story.

what i can now prove beyond reasonable doubt is that the CAM is the biggest source of problems for people doing CADCAM. its a little field of data science called Metrology. download free Metrology software for most purposes on a free restricted Trial basis if you like.

here is a Metrology scan of a bridge, the dark blue is the edges of the designed bridge, while red and yellow and Green areas indicate how off the mill made it. we are comparing a scan of the milled bridge, to the CAD, 3 different tries at the same file.
View attachment 31085 View attachment 31086 View attachment 31087

now, after modifying only the CAM parameters i was able to make that same bridge to this tolderance:
View attachment 31088

this bridge is now perfectly milled to my design.

thats how i know how off it is even before the ceramists judge design and grind the heck out of it for funsies anyway.

want to come tweak things?

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

The ones from Ron, https://dentallabnetwork.com/forums/threads/dipping-jars-2.28615/

i use them, they work great. still need tweezers (plastic) but these jars are great

 

[CoolHandLuke]

want to come tweak things?

when we roll out our secret sauce to the world i won't need to come to you to tweak things. if you simply mill a file, scan it, send the design and the scan of the product to me, i'll be able to fix you remotely.

because i would need 6 months with any other CAM software to make it do what i want.

trust me when i say this is part of the plan.

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

when we roll out our secret sauce to the world i won't need to come to you to tweak things. if you simply mill a file, scan it, send the design and the scan of the product to me, i'll be able to fix you remotely.

because i would need 6 months with any other CAM software to make it do what i want.

trust me when i say this is part of the plan.

ETA?

 

[CoolHandLuke]

2020