Zirkonzahn is it capable of milling metal?

cadfan

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The mill inkl. cam is around 20 K Euro if you mill metal with these small mills these are special dry milled nem blancks real soft. you can finish them with your turbine and its not for high production if you ask them they tell it to you.and these mills need time single crown around 30-40 minutes . if you mill 5-10 parts a week its ok more parts the guides and gearboxes make earlier limp.If you want to mill high volume metal buy a monster as i showed in another thread with a 33 pound gearbox.
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DentalAxess

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Can it mill metal?,...Yes, Should it mill metal? ,..No.

Most of us are familiar with the uplifting children's storybook entitled "The Little Engine That Could",..it was a best seller. The sequel entitled "Day 2, The Little Engine That Couldn't" didn't do nearly as well which is a shame because just like the the first book,..it contained a valuable lesson....

Well said!
 
LA Ceramics

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If it works like Sintron your gonna love it,...Sint metal rules baby Rock
 
brayks

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I have no experience with the M1 but in reviewing the technical specifications I would say this machine would likely not be the best choice for milling metal.

With a weight of only 105kg and a spindle rating of only 200W...not a good idea. The machine is likely a of fabricated frame design as well.

With just those 3 design compromises the machine would surely not be long lived in a steel cutting enviornment.

You could expect machine times to be quite long since and "aggressive" cuts taken to reduce machine time in steel (especially CoCr) would stall the spindle and result in all sort of madness.

I would expect to see short tool life and poor quality surface finishes due to excessive vibration (weight, frame, etc.).

The size and configuration of the fixture look less than desirable for effective steel cutting as well.

Just some observations based on a quick look at the ZZ web-site.

Of course I would recommend you take a good look at our Versamill, now THAT'S a serious metal cutting machine. But I could be prejudiced....
 
LA Ceramics

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I have no experience with the M1 but in reviewing the technical specifications I would say this machine would likely not be the best choice for milling metal.

With a weight of only 105kg and a spindle rating of only 200W...not a good idea. The machine is likely a of fabricated frame design as well.

With just those 3 design compromises the machine would surely not be long lived in a steel cutting enviornment.

You could expect machine times to be quite long since and "aggressive" cuts taken to reduce machine time in steel (especially CoCr) would stall the spindle and result in all sort of madness.

I would expect to see short tool life and poor quality surface finishes due to excessive vibration (weight, frame, etc.).

The size and configuration of the fixture look less than desirable for effective steel cutting as well.

Just some observations based on a quick look at the ZZ web-site.

Of course I would recommend you take a good look at our Versamill, now THAT'S a serious metal cutting machine. But I could be prejudiced....



I wonder if you could take a minute to post some pics showing how the versamill uses diamonds to mill blocks of lithium disilicate, I've searched for it , but I can't find anything. I've always assumed that this required a 60k spindle speed but if you're doing this at 30k I would be interested to see how you do it,..Thanks
 
Labwa

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the versamill comes in a 60k and 30k spindle variant from recollection LA. Or at least it does from the OEM.
 
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The mill inkl. cam is around 20 K Euro if you mill metal with these small mills these are special dry milled nem blancks real soft. you can finish them with your turbine and its not for high production if you ask them they tell it to you.and these mills need time single crown around 30-40 minutes . if you mill 5-10 parts a week its ok more parts the guides and gearboxes make earlier limp.If you want to mill high volume metal buy a monster as i showed in another thread with a 33 pound gearbox.
,
That's exactly the same i saw last week. The results are great, works really exacty. I also saw a milled bar. The M1 wet heavy is built really small but solid. If you won't mill metal the whole day, it's a great deal. If you'll really mill much more, to refresh guides and gearboxes after some years isn't very expensive.
 
brayks

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I wonder if you could take a minute to post some pics showing how the versamill uses diamonds to mill blocks of lithium disilicate, I've searched for it , but I can't find anything. I've always assumed that this required a 60k spindle speed but if you're doing this at 30k I would be interested to see how you do it,..Thanks

Sure thing. This video is on from our YouTube channel (https://www.youtube.com/user/axsysdentalsolutions) .
A couple of things:
1. You do not need 60,000 rpm (this is done with our 3kW DC spindle at around 30,000 rpm using some specialized roughing routines that allow for very fast feedrates utilizing the entire flute length of the tool
2. This video was shot during the early stages of development and while still quite good (and indeed we feel better than most you might find) does not represent our final result.
3. Total machining time is just a tick under 15 minutes - complete.
4. More videos/images available on our website at: www:axsysdental.com/gallery as well.
I hope this helps.

d8adacbe-b58f-49c8-98e1-b1fc2cf1e233_zpsce2256cc.png
042bf2c6-4802-41c6-983f-cf9ccc9ba2f8_zpseadd2a40.jpg
 
CoolHandLuke

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it is also cutting with tap water
 
brayks

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the versamill comes in a 60k and 30k spindle variant from recollection LA. Or at least it does from the OEM.

The Versamill is only offered with the 3kW DC spindle. However we have evaluated many 60,000 rpm spindles recently and over the years and we have found that these spindles are usually found in dental applications as around 1.6kW or so AC spindles which not hold a candle to the DC spindle we provide in the Versamill.

Once you really scrutinize the spec's on the spindles...in terms of the torque it might become clear. If you look at the power/torque curves, the DC spindle has approx 2X the torque (not power but torque which is what really counts) of their AC brethern and just do not get the job done; especially in machining chromium alloy's.

Although a 60,000 rpm AC spindle is available (and indeed less expensive) from the OEM we do not offer the Versamill in that configuration. It just does not meet our requirements in terms of power, longevity, reliability, machine cycle times, surface finish and tool wear for the type of machine we strive to provide; a truly industrial quality machine in a small footprint.
 
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The lab with the m1 is milling both cocr and ti also they are milling bars and abutments the software they are using is the latest from zz which is exocad based.I have also experienced the this is what is coming from zz they do it to see what has the most interest then they dedicate r&d to it a bit frustrating yes but not really any different to a lot of other companies ie ivoclar vita and the big implant guys..The m1 is past that stage i saw the m1 abutment mill milling metal in real life with my own eyes and everything.With zz you have to change the way you think or you will go crazy.They are definitely ahead of the rest in their field they solve problems that no one else can.But because they are out there the systems aren't just turn key however because they are further along than most, most of the time you put up with it and end up doing stuff you never thought was possible about 2-5 years before everyone else.Its interesting how they are perceived around the world just hearing that they are a closed system still after all these years shows how little is still known about them.I have a lot of respect for the company as I have been buying their products from the very beginning I had 1 of the 1st hand mills and one of the 1st m5 both machines expanded my business greatly and are the reason why im still a techo I would have throne it in years ago otherwise.
 
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Mohammad Khair

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The lab with the m1 is milling both cocr and ti also they are milling bars and abutments the software they are using is the latest from zz which is exocad based.I have also experienced the this is what is coming from zz they do it to see what has the most interest then they dedicate r&d to it a bit frustrating yes but not really any different to a lot of other companies ie ivoclar vita and the big implant guys..The m1 is past that stage i saw the m1 abutment mill milling metal in real life with my own eyes and everything.With zz you have to change the way you think or you will go crazy.They are definitely ahead of the rest in their field they solve problems that no one else can.But because they are out there the systems aren't just turn key however because they are further along than most, most of the time you put up with it and end up doing stuff you never thought was possible about 2-5 years before everyone else.Its interesting how they are perceived around the world just hearing that they are a closed system still after all these years shows how little is still known about them.I have a lot of respect for the company as I have been buying their products from the very beginning I had 1 of the 1st hand mills and one of the 1st m5 both machines expanded my business greatly and are the reason why im still a techo I would have throne it in years ago otherwise.

Even though i don't like Prettau and find it unproper dental restoration but Grantoz's opinion is very close to some facts here.
 
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grantoz

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mohammad prettau is fine as a dental restoration time has proven that.
 
LA Ceramics

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Sure thing. This video is on from our YouTube channel (https://www.youtube.com/user/axsysdentalsolutions) .
A couple of things:
1. You do not need 60,000 rpm (this is done with our 3kW DC spindle at around 30,000 rpm using some specialized roughing routines that allow for very fast feedrates utilizing the entire flute length of the tool
2. This video was shot during the early stages of development and while still quite good (and indeed we feel better than most you might find) does not represent our final result.
3. Total machining time is just a tick under 15 minutes - complete.
4. More videos/images available on our website at: www:axsysdental.com/gallery as well.
I hope this helps.

d8adacbe-b58f-49c8-98e1-b1fc2cf1e233_zpsce2256cc.png
042bf2c6-4802-41c6-983f-cf9ccc9ba2f8_zpseadd2a40.jpg




Very interesting strategy. More straight up milling than swarfing. Looks like it has no problem with that blue block material but does that strategy work when you are doing regular LiS2 cause it's a lot harder and what about the new super-duper hard LiS stuff. Thanks for the vid and info,..very cool
 
brayks

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Very interesting strategy. More straight up milling than swarfing. Looks like it has no problem with that blue block material but does that strategy work when you are doing regular LiS2 cause it's a lot harder and what about the new super-duper hard LiS stuff. Thanks for the vid and info,..very cool

The short answer is the basic strategies are effective for "regular LiS2 as well as harder materials because of our machining "process" as a whole. Cutting parameters of course change however, for the most part, the same machining strategies are used.

Our processes' utilize toolpath that are very carefully developed. We choose strategies that pay extreme attention to chip load, chip configuration (RCTF) to provide the fastest cycle time, highest quality surface finish and greatest tool life. End result of our "processing" includes uninterrupted cuts, and effective feed/speed/feed/DOC/step over etc for the material being machined as well as the composition and geometry of the cutting tool.

Of course proper fixturing and machine construction play a very large part as well.
 
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LA Ceramics

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The short answer is the basic strategies are effective for "regular LiS2 as well as harder materials because of our machining "process" as a whole. Cutting parameters of course change however, for the most part, the same machining strategies are used.

Our processes' utilize toolpath that are very carefully developed. We choose strategies that pay extreme attention to chip load, chip configuration (RCTF) to provide the fastest cycle time, highest quality surface finish and greatest tool life. End result of our "processing" includes uninterrupted cuts, and effective feed/speed/feed/DOC/step over etc for the material being machined as well as the composition and geometry of the cutting tool.

Of course proper fixturing and machine construction play a very large part as well.


You should ask Chris to get a vid of the reg. LiS2 being milled on the web. I think that an industrial metal mill with a max 30K spindle that can swarf cut glass is a horse of a different color that people need to see for themselves!! I know I would,...Thanks again dude...
 
Doug4DAL

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I am milling metal everyday in my lab . Trust me , ability in general , and ability to produce a consistent high quality result are too completely different things in metal milling . Especially for implant screw retained or bar cases .

I trully believe that sending a stl will do you good . It did for me , helping me eliminate some of the machines I was looking into metal milling because of their bad results .

I am not trying to convince you or anyone else that big machines are better for metal milling , I don't need to because it is a fact . Ask anyone .

I am just trying to help you , as everyone here , you don't have to be aggresive to your replies .
Amen
 
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Thanks for alll the answers. I find info that ZZ was making similar claims with M5 very valuable, it looks to me like they are doing it all over again.
 
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