Zirconia sintering furnace

Techy

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Which model of mihm-vogt Furnace is the best?

I need a reliable oven!!!

Going nuts trying to fix issues and worrying about our ovens on a nightly basis.....

Cost "approx" of the mihm-vogt?
Where to buy?
I am in Canada, whats available in North America in terms of distributors?

Thanks
 
BobCDT

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You have selected a really good sintering furnace. We have one at CAP and we are a reseller. mihm vogt has been manufacturing high end furnaces for decades. German built. If you are doing any quantity of work get the large one. In addition, you can't stand up full arches on a sintering block in the small one. For more info you can call Sam at 877-977-7889.
 
NicelyMKV

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You have selected a really good sintering furnace. We have one at CAP and we are a reseller. mihm vogt has been manufacturing high end furnaces for decades. German built. If you are doing any quantity of work get the large one. In addition, you can't stand up full arches on a sintering block in the small one. For more info you can call Sam at 877-977-7889.

Bob, doesn't the large furnace have a pre dry stage you can put in your program?
 
Zubler USA

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We have two models, both are great. One is just larger with more features than the other. If you would like to talk pricing and get further information, you can call Bob at C.A.P. if you need other information, I will be happy to assist. The HT Speed is the larger of the two and can handle two full trays. The HT-S Speed is the more economical of the two. Both have 90 minute sintering cycles.
Which model of mihm-vogt Furnace is the best?

I need a reliable oven!!!

Going nuts trying to fix issues and worrying about our ovens on a nightly basis.....

Cost "approx" of the mihm-vogt?
Where to buy?
I am in Canada, whats available in North America in terms of distributors?

Thanks
 
Last edited:
BobCDT

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Yes, the predry cycle is optional and programmed in as needed.
 
Kam Yu

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Im also looking for my first sintering oven. So far, a reputable friend rec'd the s1 because you can calibrate and change programs? But another tech using the s1 said the fast program doesnt work so they have to use the 7-8hr program. Ive heard alot of good about mihm and shenpaz. Does the shenpaz have a fast program? Do all ovens use the same type of electrical outlet? So, of the s1, mihm, and shenpaz, which is most cost effective on initial price and ongoing maintanence, ease of use and reliability of build, diverse with fast and slow programs?

Thanks!
 
Zubler USA

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Hi Kam,

You are pittin gone manufacturer against another, I can't speak directly for Shenpaz, The Mihm Vogt ovens have a great reputation and are 230Vac units. I like 230Vac because they tend to be more efficient and less harsh on power supply components. In regards to maintenance and cost of ownership, I would have to say the Mihm Vogt ovens have earned their good reputation legitimately. The need to change heating elements is not frequent, the heating elements can be changed individually and the overall reliability is great. The units utilize very high quality speed MoSi2 heating elements which have a long service life and do not contaminate easily. One thing to keep in mind isn't just the reputation, but the support and understanding of the oven market. I notice a lot of discussion relating to temperature and accuracy in regards to sintering ovens. The difference seen from oven manufacturer to oven manufacturer is caused by one simple issue with all sintering ovens:

There is no international standard for calibration above 1200C!

This means every oven manufacturer has a different calibration methodology and temperature curve. They also have different measurement methods and different allowable tolerances from the component level to the temperature measurement itself.

This is why if you buy an oven from one manufacturer, then one from another, your temperature settings can very greatly. The important part of the equation, would be build quality and a decision between capabilities & components.

Some ovens come with MoSi2 heating elements (in different grades) others come with SiC elements. The discussion relating to which one is better, depends on the application. The main differences between the two different materials is that MoSi2 elements can be affected by the out gassing of contaminates (typically from color liquids) into the chamber that ionize and can oxidize the surface of the heating elements. However, the high speed versions are very robust and do not typically suffer from this problem easily. The lower end versions (ovens with heat rates of 30C/Min or less) tend to have this issue to a much greater degree, which is why proponents of SiC elements typically pic on those lower end MoSi2 elements. All the same, the speed MoSi2 elements have heat rates in excess of 99C/Min and maximum surface temperature capabilities of up to 1850C! Although most of the ovens limit the programmable to 1650C, this gives you more room to play with your translucent zirc temps.

SiC elements have a couple of nice features, but some major drawbacks depending on your application. The nice thing about SiC elements is that they do not contaminate easily and can heat and cool quickly. They also tend to have a maximum surface temperature of 1600C, which leaves you with a programmable roof of usually around 1530C. However the main drawback that tends to bring people away from ovens with SiC elements is the need to replace elements quite often. Since their maximum surface temperature is 1600C and many of the newer translucent materials are firing near the maximum temperature of the oven, the life of the elements tends to be short. Furthermore, this leaves you little room to play with temperatures for translucency. Whats worse, is if one element goes out, you have to replace at least two at one time, because SiC elements have an electrical resistance that changes over time and are wired in parallel creating a problem where you would change the current going through one element if you put in a new element with a different electrical resistance.

If you have anymore questions, please let us know.
 
BobCDT

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The Dekema 664 and 674 both have speed cycles for both Dental Direkt and Amann Girrbach zirconia materials. The furnaces are identical with the exception of capacity. The 674 is larger fires
60 units in an 8 hour cycle 15 in 2:45. The 664 capacity is 40-12. The speed program is shorter,
Just 2:05.
 
Getoothachopper

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The Dekema 664 and 674 both have speed cycles for both Dental Direkt and Amann Girrbach zirconia materials. The furnaces are identical with the exception of capacity. The 674 is larger fires
60 units in an 8 hour cycle 15 in 2:45. The 664 capacity is 40-12. The speed program is shorter,
Just 2:05.
Do these run off 110 volts ?(I don't want to have to put a third 220v in my lab) I'm really interested in the smaller one ,love the idea of completing a zirc unit from start to finish in one day :)
 
BobCDT

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Do these run off 110 volts ?(I don't want to have to put a third 220v in my lab) I'm really interested in the smaller one ,love the idea of completing a zirc unit from start to finish in one day :)
220 only. Less expensive to operate and delivers the needed power.
 
Kam Yu

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Hi Kam,

You are pittin gone manufacturer against another, I can't speak directly for Shenpaz, The Mihm Vogt ovens have a great reputation and are 230Vac units. I like 230Vac because they tend to be more efficient and less harsh on power supply components. In regards to maintenance and cost of ownership, I would have to say the Mihm Vogt ovens have earned their good reputation legitimately. The need to change heating elements is not frequent, the heating elements can be changed individually and the overall reliability is great. The units utilize very high quality speed MoSi2 heating elements which have a long service life and do not contaminate easily. One thing to keep in mind isn't just the reputation, but the support and understanding of the oven market. I notice a lot of discussion relating to temperature and accuracy in regards to sintering ovens. The difference seen from oven manufacturer to oven manufacturer is caused by one simple issue with all sintering ovens:

There is no international standard for calibration above 1200C!

This means every oven manufacturer has a different calibration methodology and temperature curve. They also have different measurement methods and different allowable tolerances from the component level to the temperature measurement itself.

This is why if you buy an oven from one manufacturer, then one from another, your temperature settings can very greatly. The important part of the equation, would be build quality and a decision between capabilities & components.

Some ovens come with MoSi2 heating elements (in different grades) others come with SiC elements. The discussion relating to which one is better, depends on the application. The main differences between the two different materials is that MoSi2 elements can be affected by the out gassing of contaminates (typically from color liquids) into the chamber that ionize and can oxidize the surface of the heating elements. However, the high speed versions are very robust and do not typically suffer from this problem easily. The lower end versions (ovens with heat rates of 30C/Min or less) tend to have this issue to a much greater degree, which is why proponents of SiC elements typically pic on those lower end MoSi2 elements. All the same, the speed MoSi2 elements have heat rates in excess of 99C/Min and maximum surface temperature capabilities of up to 1850C! Although most of the ovens limit the programmable to 1650C, this gives you more room to play with your translucent zirc temps.

SiC elements have a couple of nice features, but some major drawbacks depending on your application. The nice thing about SiC elements is that they do not contaminate easily and can heat and cool quickly. They also tend to have a maximum surface temperature of 1600C, which leaves you with a programmable roof of usually around 1530C. However the main drawback that tends to bring people away from ovens with SiC elements is the need to replace elements quite often. Since their maximum surface temperature is 1600C and many of the newer translucent materials are firing near the maximum temperature of the oven, the life of the elements tends to be short. Furthermore, this leaves you little room to play with temperatures for translucency. Whats worse, is if one element goes out, you have to replace at least two at one time, because SiC elements have an electrical resistance that changes over time and are wired in parallel creating a problem where you would change the current going through one element if you put in a new element with a different electrical resistance.

If you have anymore questions, please let us know.

Thanks for the info! I don't mean to pit companies together, I'm just asking for honest facts about the different ovens. It seems I hear most about shenpaz and mihm to be the best sintering ovens overall. Can you PM me some details on price?
 
zero_zero

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220 only. Less expensive to operate and delivers the needed power.
It would be the same cost for the same power draw... Watts = Volts x Amps
 
Kam Yu

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Does anybody have any info on the KDF sintering oven?
 
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I own a zubbler 30c is the max rate of climb, 4 months old ,contamination has occurred , I use prettua liquid, dried out under heat lamp 35-45min before entering the oven.I run 3-5 cleaning cycles I can still see black strikes along the elements . I've ordered calibration ring to verify the proper temp of the over .If anyone has any recommendation please reply asap .
 
Zubler USA

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Hi Zahnartz, not to be picky, but this cannot be a Zubler oven. The maximum heat rate on a Zubler is 99C/Min. I suspect you own a Tabeo from Mihm Vogt that you purchased from Zubler USA?

Please call me and we will figure out what is going on. Usually, if you have contaminates from color liquids, the corresponding oxidation on the elements looks white, not black. Contaminates from metal particles from the mill can do this, or the coolant liquid may be responsible, even cheap milling burs can impart contaminates from the binders. But in order to find out exactly what the contaminate is I need to know what it looks like, I will need pictures and to ask you questions. My contact information is below.
 
cadfan

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@ Chris Wilson

Hi Chris if i understand it right Tabeo has the clean heating elements and yours the more expense super clean ??? THX John
 
Zubler USA

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Hi John,

"Clean" is branding from a specific MoSi2 Manufacturer, if I recall. The name doesn't matter so much, the specs are what counts. Some manufacturers are obviously superior to others. What the technician should look for when buying an oven is about heat rate capabilities and final temperature capabilities when it comes to getting an idea of the quallity of MoSi2 element you are getting. I have written about this extensively on this network and in a paper I have given out from time to time.

The TABEO has the basic MoSi2 Elements with a heat rate capability of 30C.Min. This is an entry level oven.

The Zubler S400, Mihm Vogt HT SPEED, & MIHM VOGT HT-S SPEED all have MoSi2 SPEED Elements with Heat rates in excess of 99C/Min. They are far superior to the basic MoSi2 element, because the SPEED elements' surface coating is thicker and the quality of the elements is higher than the basic MoSi2 element. The life span also tends to be longer with the SPEED element, because the maximum surface temperature is higher (around 1850C).

I just spoke with zahnartz on the phone, he has a MIHM VOGT - TABEO. I am working to help him out right now.

Ultimately, I would urge you to buy an oven SPEED MoSi2 elements.
 

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