Zenotec mini vs roland vs vhf

Jarmw89

Jarmw89

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Well, my research for the milling has ended and this ones are the final candidates, i would like to mill zirconia but in the future i would go for implants and metal, with one would you recomend moré? Of course im tal king 5 axis roland and 4 axis vhf
 
LA Ceramics

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Neither,...sorry dude,..not those units brother,...try Ceramill motion 2 or imes icore or even the Proteus 4 and a half......just say no,.. to the toaster ovens
 
Gru

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I have a vhf 4-axis. Not a mill for implants or metal IMHO. While I've never used it, the roland probably isn't either. Good mills for dry, basic milling, but look for something sturdier. And probably a wet mill? Versamill, Imes, or the above mentioned?
 
ts4341

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My Mini is a great dry mill. Solid and the spindle is one of the best!
So much talk about mills, the most important decision besides 4 or 5 axis, wet or dry, is the
SPINDLE performance and durability! I will put the Mini up against Roland & Vhf mills any day.
Deal
 
CreDes

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The mini is a VHF if I'm not mistaken. They both have the Jäger spindle. These do use a lot of air though. The spindle runs on air. The Roland is 5 axis which is a big plus. I don't think the Roland uses much air, just a small amount for tool changing.
 
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sanartdental

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The mini is a VHF if I'm not mistaken. They both have the Jäger spindle. These do use a lot of air though. The spindle runs on air. The Roland is 5 axis which is a big plus. I don't think the Roland uses much air, just a small amount for tool changing.
Hi Credes: All Jager spindles use lot of air? I have a 450i and it consuming not too much air. Look like only for tool changing it consumes air. Thanks.
 
Vazone

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They use air for cooling, due to they have more power then on Rolland
 
Heidi

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I too was looking at mills, I was wondering how much work justifies a mill? If you have a scanner and milling centers are fighting for the business you can get them back super fast, is it worth having your own mill?
 
Smithwick0208

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My Mini is a great dry mill. Solid and the spindle is one of the best!
So much talk about mills, the most important decision besides 4 or 5 axis, wet or dry, is the
SPINDLE performance and durability! I will put the Mini up against Roland & Vhf mills any day.
Deal
The spindle in the mini and vhf are the same. Both are good mills for zirconia. We have 4 mini's and 2 Roland's and all of them are pretty consistent.
 
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I believe what it really comes down to Heidi is a couple of things, the biggest being the fact that if you are doing or plan to do Full Contour Zirconia restorations, you are going to want the control over coloring them (And I don't mean with external stains) vs. letting the milling center do it for you. This is a major factor in personalizing the restoration to meet your standards. (We are starting to see some labs purchase small sintering ovens and get the zr units back in the green state to accommodate coloring them themselves). I also believe the convenience factor of having the mill on site and the ability to mill wax for pressing E.max, casting copings, etc. are other reasons to consider having your own mill vs. outsourcing but ultimately you have to do the math on the # of units you are producing against the cost of the equipment, support, etc.
 
BobCDT

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I too was looking at mills, I was wondering how much work justifies a mill? If you have a scanner and milling centers are fighting for the business you can get them back super fast, is it worth having your own mill?
Your milling center is making a profit from every unit you send them. If you have enough work for a positive ROI this profit would be added to your bottom line rather than theirs if you have the mill.
 
BobCDT

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If you include the Ceramill Motion 2 to your list of mills to look at. You can buy it with 4 or 5 axis dry. Later you can do a very simple upgrade to wet when you determine you need it. This is one of the only mills specifically designes to go from wet to dry and dry to wet. The changeover is quick. In addition, AG is in additional product development to bring more solutions to this mill.
This is more expensive the either the Roland or VHF. If this is a factor I really love Roland. Have no experience with VHF. Another cost effective option, the new Mikro from AG, 4 axis. This is built like a little tank.
 
CoolHandLuke

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I too was looking at mills, I was wondering how much work justifies a mill? If you have a scanner and milling centers are fighting for the business you can get them back super fast, is it worth having your own mill?

depends on a number of factors.

1. how slipshod is their quality? do you experience many remakes? are their shades inconsistent or consistently off?
2. are you willing to do the legwork to get better shades, and spend more money on zirconia than you ever have ?
3. do you expect the process of CAM and sintering to be plug-and-play ?

when i first began milling i was given the YZ dipping solution and 0 instructions. naturally everything came out dark piss yellow. i also had a milling machine that was of fair quality but again very little in the way of instruction.

this is the worst case scenario; you buy something at good price and end up with a thing you have no idea how to use and takes months to learn properly.

no doubt this will *not* be the case for you but be prepared. every time you change zirconia brands you change the outcome of the shading process.

there are lots of tabletop average quality stuff out there. most of it will come with at least a hotline to have questions answered, and a 1-3 day training session on the basic operations of the unit.

but you gotta really have some kinda bug up your butt about the milling center currently supplying you. otherwise i'd just continue to outsource.
 
Gru

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When calculating your ROI, be sure to add in the time and product required to produce the same product. I very much want to mill my own zr, but when I add in total raw product cost, time and learning curve, in house failures, and loss of time that can be spent on other things, I cannot justify it even though I want to.
Understand that I'm not a total newbie - we did 250k zr units while I was at my previous employer.

That said, my little vhf mills wax and pmma well and saves headaches. All depends on how you wish to use the mill.

I'll have to keep Bob's CeramillMotion2 in mind should I ever go to wet milling. I like the idea of the easy back and forth wet/dry.
 
RMNATL

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Well, my research for the milling has ended and this ones are the final candidates, i would like to mill zirconia but in the future i would go for implants and metal, with one would you recomend moré? Of course im tal king 5 axis roland and 4 axis vhf

While our company does sell the Rolland DWX-50, and as much as I would like to help you buy one, I cannot recommend it nor the VHF for the purposes you have in mind.
The Rolland is a fantastic, reliable, proven machine. That said, for metal, implants and other high-stress operations, its nowhere near suitable.
Also, for these operations, 5-axis is a must. You might want to look into an Amann-Girrbach or contact an imes-icore dealer for that kind of work.
 
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All of these statements have some truth in them. My feeling is that ROI are cold hard numbers. They must be considered. The hassle factor of machine ownership is something different... If you can develop a good relationship with a milling center, they are burdened with machine problems, software update, adverse outcomes, you get (I hope) perfect units each time. Control over your own machine is nice if you can exploit it, but that takes time and significant effort. A scanner is a good start as it reduces time instead of shipping, I think you need maybe 10 units a day to really justify a mill. But thats just my opinion.
 

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