Titanium milling machine

[DMC]

Watched a Titanium Coping done today near Chicago on the Kavo. Very fast!

I drove 800 miles today with oldest son. We got a speeding ticket in OH..

Mills looks good and works. I have big plans for it. LOL

White light scanner looks cool as well.

Much more Industrial package than I had imagined. Real PLC computer. Kinda a sweet machine. Stone/alloy base frame. I'll take pics on Mon/tue when I get back to the East Coast. Nice axis motors and rails/bearing. Very different design. I'm going to clean and grease it up, and then give it a beating.

 

[k2 Ceramic Studio]

you will need to calibrate it once you have set it up or all your units will have naff fits. I can talk you through it but it is a slow process takes most of the day to get it bang on. It is a password protected program called IBH bad news is its all in German. The price you got it for is fantastic!

 

[k2 Ceramic Studio]

Scott, make sure you transport the scanner in on a anti static material as the camera is connected via a firewire cable and can be killed by a static charge from being moved on the back seat of a car, and yes I did do this. :-( the guys that make the camera " Basler" will fix it for £300 or 3K through KaVo! You need to go through a third party Basler wont touch it direct.

 

[DMC]

you will need to calibrate it once you have set it up or all your units will have naff fits. I can talk you through it but it is a slow process takes most of the day to get it bang on. It is a password protected program called IBH bad news is its all in German. The price you got it for is fantastic!

I hope to run the Engine using SUM3D.

I want sprues and a big 98mm disk. Does Kavo have this nesting software in the CAM as upgrade?

If not, I will try to use 3rd party software for the Engine.

Is the scanner any good? Seems pretty well built and could have potential?
What about full-anatomy software?
Dude gave me eMax blocks and a full GC Ti porc kit as well! Lots of supplies!

Is eMax worth trying on these things?

Thanks in advance!

Scott

 

[k2 Ceramic Studio]

I hope to run the Engine using SUM3D.

I want sprues and a big 98mm disk. Does Kavo have this nesting software in the CAM as upgrade?

If not, I will try to use 3rd party software for the Engine.

Is the scanner any good? Seems pretty well built and could have potential?
What about full-anatomy software?
Dude gave me eMax blocks and a full GC Ti porc kit as well! Lots of supplies!

Is eMax worth trying on these things?

Thanks in advance!

Scott

Hi only just seen your message. Sounds like you are runing on old software! Or it could be that you have just not had the "rondel" install yet, if you want it then just email me and I will bounce it back.it does have full anatomy as an add on. It is a very simple update that just needs an extra 500meg stick in the engine comp and a more protrusive cage around the spindle head but you only need that for Zr as they have slightly longer burs for milling Zr disks. When you have the disk update that will give you a screen option to mill two 98mm disks side by side, we use this option to mill upto 4 all on four cases over night (48 units of Ti) the scanner is very good and we get fantastic results. You should have the option to wax scan, now I know that is old hat but you can scan upside down to show underneth a bridge which is great for doing Hader bars. eMax is OK just ties the Engine up to long. Ppma mills really fast and the wax embeding for Zr gives great results.

 

[harmonylab]

so is the Everest built better for titanium milling than B&D?

 

[Mark Jackson]

Please define, "excellent results"

I wonder how many bakes they can get? Can they do an add-on after a try-in? What's it like to strip and restack on an already fired upon frame?

What is the longest span they can do?

There is a reason only a handful of little boutique labs claim to have "excellent results"

Show me a hundred man lab doing it all day every day. You think Glidewell would be doing it big time with gold prices as they are. Call it "spatial awareness" but I'm not touching that stuff again with a ten foot hemostat.

 

[DMC]

LOL.

Mark, thanks for the tip on the mill looking for a good home!

I went straight to the bank and got $$ and drove right up to Chicago after talking with you. That's how I roll! 1600 miles this past weekend in a car. Joy.

It is in my lab and I am packing up my engine hoist to take back home and cleaning up my lab after destroying a small section. It was fun.

This is NO WAY a table-top mill. Whoever says that is crazy. Thing is heavy and big.

I bought this mill for my son. His first of many to come?

The guys below are Mike Surif (recently brainwashed by Sirona and now speaks for them) and son Mike....and me and my oldest son Mason.





I'm on a Boat Mother F'er!

[YOUTUBE]R7yfISlGLNU[/YOUTUBE]

 

[DMC]

so is the Everest built better for titanium milling than B&D?

For the price I paid.....

ah, that's a 10-4 good buddy.

The frame is a mineral/alloy beast that is 2x larger than a 3M Lava mill. (Germans add Rocks to the alloy to make a milling machine frame to dampen vibrations. It's a REAL German 5-axis mill and then some IMO.)

Axis motors are very high quality and beefy big. Bigger than most mill's spindles! Rails are German quality. It's a pretty sweet set-up!

I'd say this mill should last 25yrs or so.
The computers are another story. Need more RAM, better processors, and faster HDs. It has a Real PLC Automation computer, not some crappy USB driven mill. Spaghetti mess of wires in the rear.

I also got the KaVo bench, cooling system, and all sorts of crap that is in my Yukon. Complete set-up with the White-Light scanner and CAD design station.

 

[k2 Ceramic Studio]

boutique labs Lol

Please define, "excellent results"

I wonder how many bakes they can get? Can they do an add-on after a try-in? What's it like to strip and restack on an already fired upon frame?

What is the longest span they can do?

There is a reason only a handful of little boutique labs claim to have "excellent results"


I think I said fantastic or great, dont really use excellent, anyway, I think the fits are really good, even great, all of my cad/cam work is seated using a 10x microscope and I am always happy with how they look, they just fit and fit really nice.

We dont tend to go OTT on the bakes but this stuff is grade 2 medical Ti so no chance of anything nasty coming through, you are talking about 5 firings before you can start building up anyway but I have never had a problem with this stuff, just dont take it over 800c and you are fine.

Why would there be a problem doing an add on after a try-in, We have fired onto a screw retained full arch bridge, over 2 years after it was fitted because the poor chap fell and chipped the UL1.

If you are not happy and need to strip/adjust the frame then that is also no problem. just re-trim and tungsten the surface all over then start from scratch with the sandblast, steam, bench rest for 5 min, then GC or Vita Bonder fire then start the first wash opaque( I recommend B1)

The longest span would be a 16 unit but I think my largest was 15! I do 2/3 12 unit spans every night for all on 4 cases.

"boutique labs" LOL

Hope this helps All the best Pete

 

[Mark Jackson]

Glad it's working for you. I never said they didn't fit. You can mill any metal and make it fit. The problem is in how the ceramic reacts, and at a very low fusing temperature, you get poor solubility performance, and if it gets wet with saliva and refired, it's toast. Esthetics suck too in my opinion, but that's just me. Low fusing porcelain never took off for a reason.

The best thing about titanium is that if you accidentally fire it on a regular ceramic cycle, it does a great job of purging your muffle.

Again, I'm glad someone is having good results with it. I had a long and personal relationship with that alloy, and spent a ton of money on it, convinced I could make money with it...but I can't in MY lab.

 

[Mark Jackson]

LOL.

Mark, thanks for the tip on the mill looking for a good home!

I went straight to the bank and got $$ and drove right up to Chicago after talking with you. That's how I roll! 1600 miles this past weekend in a car. Joy.

Always glad to hook a brother up! I was ready to drop the dime on that thing, but as I said on the phone, I have another project cooking for this material. I'm sure you'll put it to very good use Scott!

 

[k2 Ceramic Studio]

Low fusing porcelain never took off for a reason!

Low fusing porcelain never took off for a reason.


The best thing about titanium is that if you accidentally fire it on a regular ceramic cycle, it does a great job of purging your muffle.


.

e.max all ceramic all you need
What temp does that fire at again??????

Does that really work? I have herd it before but thought they were pulling my leg (about the Ti ).

 

[disturbed]

bonder layer..lol...Ti, like Zr, has no oxidation layer, therefore nothing can stick to it.. mechanical retention only.. I predict (and have seen) more fatigue and chipping problems, same as our clients are seeing with layered to Zr now...

If you are going to build on it make sure you build the support waaay out to the point that it kills the life and depth of your crown...

 

[Mark Jackson]

We press emax at 925c, but lithium disilcate and porcelain are two different animals. But really, you bring up a good point, so I'll let it lay. Historically, low fusing PORCEAIN peformed at the very lowest levels in terms of solubility, water absorbtion and stain resistance. I know, I worked for Vita at the time.

Anyway, titanium has great scavanging properties and it absorbs all kinds of junk in the atmosphere. Sucks it up like a sponge.

Don't get me wrong, I'm very fond of the metal, it's just the ceramics that discourage me. I'll be milling plenty of titanium here, just not putting porcelain on it.

 

[k2 Ceramic Studio]

Ti has no oxidation layer! ROFLMAO

bonder layer..lol...Ti, like Zr, has no oxidation layer, therefore nothing can stick to it.. mechanical retention only.. I predict (and have seen) more fatigue and chipping problems, same as our clients are seeing with layered to Zr now...

If you are going to build on it make sure you build the support waaay out to the point that it kills the life and depth of your crown...

What on earth have you been smoking?
CP Titanium Grade 2


Have a look at CORROSION RESISTANCE section

Titanium has the most resilient oxide on the planet, It would take the oral environment over 3000000years to break it down. That to me is a very good and real oxide, have you ever tried to sandblast this stuff when it comes out of the furnace, as you Americans say, "it's like the 4th of July", there is an instant reaction between the aluminium beads and the very TOUGH and very real OXIDE.

You as a tech should know that you should give adequate suport to any framwork be it preciouse Zr, Ti or e.max.

 

[harmonylab]

bonder layer..lol...Ti, like Zr, has no oxidation layer, therefore nothing can stick to it.. mechanical retention only.. I predict (and have seen) more fatigue and chipping problems, same as our clients are seeing with layered to Zr now...

If you are going to build on it make sure you build the support waaay out to the point that it kills the life and depth of your crown...

your clients are getting inferior crowns done by some shoddy techs. There is no problem with layered Zr crowns chipping if it's done right. We've had no problems with it.

 

[rkm rdt]

your clients are getting inferior crowns done by some shoddy techs. There is no problem with layered Zr crowns chipping if it's done right. We've had no problems with it.

I agree with you Harmony.I have had no problems as well.

Keep in mind that you are dealing with an unprofessional " Emax salesman" determined to promote his own agenda and cover his own limitations by slandering other acredited technician's personal experiences.