The best translucent zirconia

[labguy5381]

What are all of you seeing in translucent zirconia? What are your opinions on the most esthetic translucent zirconia brands on the market? The ones I have tested have been a challenge to get the correct shades. They tended to be on the yellow side. Your advice is appreciated.

Jim

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

hey Jim, thats a loaded question!
has more to do with coloring technique and liquid, sintering times and temps, and overall handling.
most of the trans zircs ive handled come out reasonable. some better than others, but thats with my hands. ive seen stellar results from others that i am unable to get out of it.

 

[Restorationlab]

Friends have reported using Argen and Katana shaded with good results. They don't surface stain, just polish. I have not tried them yet. I've also heard good things about the Zenostar MT. I tried to get a test crown made at Ivoclar's mill facility but they can't mill the MT yet. They sell the pucks but can't mill it themselves? What's up with that?

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

Friends have reported using Argen and Katana shaded with good results. They don't surface stain, just polish. I have not tried them yet. I've also heard good things about the Zenostar MT. I tried to get a test crown made at Ivoclar's mill facility but they can't mill the MT yet. They sell the pucks but can't mill it themselves? What's up with that?

no idea on any of those...i had some katana milled for me awhile back. its decent, but wasnt good enough for me....could have been just my experience, im sure others love it.
i personally have a serious affection for whip mix Vericore HT and HTX. been flying off the shelf with very repeatable (and great) shading results. i think whip mix needs to start paying me, i sound like a KOL @Matt Drury LOL

 

[eyeloveteeth]

the best translucent zirconia is the one you know how to work with.

 

[eyeloveteeth]

also i am not trying to be facetious. What furnace oven are you using? I mean, this is like asking what spark plugs are the best or Rims.

I could just say buy ADV.1's

 

[Matt Drury]

no idea on any of those...i had some katana milled for me awhile back. its decent, but wasnt good enough for me....could have been just my experience, im sure others love it.
i personally have a serious affection for whip mix Vericore HT and HTX. been flying off the shelf with very repeatable (and great) shading results. i think whip mix needs to start paying me, i sound like a KOL @Matt Drury LOL

Sidesh0wb0b, thanks for the testimonial. I can't stress enough how amazing Whip Mix Vericore HT and HTX looks!! Not sure what method you are using, but the Zirconzahn Aquarell colours/stains seem to be working magic on this material. Another good source to check out would be Doug Frye DTG CDT, he teaches his method using the Zirconzahn Aquarell with Whip Mix Vericore HT and HTX zirconia fairly regularly at Whip Mix, and attendees have loved their results since attending. Last week he taught an advanced class using a cut-back technique, then stacking ceramic/porcelain to add even more translucency and lifelike results! Check out photos below. If you haven't given Vericore HT and HTX zirconia a try, WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!?!

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

Sidesh0wb0b, thanks for the testimonial. I can't stress enough how amazing Whip Mix Vericore HT and HTX looks!! Not sure what method you are using, but the Zirconzahn Aquarell colours/stains seem to be working magic on this material. Another good source to check out would be Doug Frye DTG CDT, he teaches his method using the Zirconzahn Aquarell with Whip Mix Vericore HT and HTX zirconia fairly regularly at Whip Mix, and attendees have loved their results since attending. Last week he taught an advanced class using a cut-back technique, then stacking ceramic/porcelain to add even more translucency and lifelike results! Check out photos below. If you haven't given Vericore HT and HTX zirconia a try, WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!?!

beautiful stuff, Matt!
one of these days ill try the aquarell, but i am still getting superb results with DD liquids so ive been hesitant to change from whats already working!

 

[Matt Drury]

beautiful stuff, Matt!
one of these days ill try the aquarell, but i am still getting superb results with DD liquids so ive been hesitant to change from whats already working!

That's good to hear that you found a combo that is working for you. If it aint broke, don't fix it!!

 

[BobCDT]

I think we need to figure out if we are talking about monolithic or layered restoration. For monolithic, I have been working with AG Zolid FX Multi and had written a blog "The Esthetic Tipping Point of CAD CAM Has Arrive" I truly believe the best esthetic monolithic restoration can be achieved with a pre shaded multi layered disc. This disc is similar to UTML form Noritake. Both are built to mimic coloring and translucency of natural teeth in a monolithic restoration. Although green state coloring liquids have given us some ability to create color effects it is no where as good as building the proper layers into each disc.
You cam read the blog and see some pics here.
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/esth...-has-arrived-bob-cohen-cdt?trk=mp-reader-card

 

[labguy5381]

I love loaded questions, sideshowbob. I feel like if I ask an open ended question, I will get lots of helpful replies. Thanks so much for all of the good replies. You are right Bob, I wasn't clear that I was asking about monolithic zirconia. Thanks for the blog link. Matt, I am happy to call Doug a friend, and will certainly contact him. We just got a Katana UTML puck in and am anxious to try it out. Up until recently, we were almost exclusively dipping our regular zirconia with reasonably good results. However, it is becoming obvious that we have gotten stagnant in our R&D and were falling behind. We tried the Cube-X translucent zirconia and the dental direct dipping liquids but they all seemed to come out too yellow. Right now we are using Cercon HT shaded for our primary monolithic zirconia, but I believe we may still be a step behind. Eyeloveteeth, you are absolutely right, it's like porcelains...the best one on the market is the one you know how to manipulate. However, since we haven't really settled on a translucent zirconia that we seem to manipulate well, I am asking the experts...the people who work with it every day. We have the Shenpaz Sintra furnace which seems to be a good furnace. Would love to hear from more of you.

Jim

 

[Toothman19]

Noritake STML/UTML or Ceramill Zolid Fx is what we like using

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

I love loaded questions, sideshowbob. I feel like if I ask an open ended question, I will get lots of helpful replies. Thanks so much for all of the good replies. You are right Bob, I wasn't clear that I was asking about monolithic zirconia. Thanks for the blog link. Matt, I am happy to call Doug a friend, and will certainly contact him. We just got a Katana UTML puck in and am anxious to try it out. Up until recently, we were almost exclusively dipping our regular zirconia with reasonably good results. However, it is becoming obvious that we have gotten stagnant in our R&D and were falling behind. We tried the Cube-X translucent zirconia and the dental direct dipping liquids but they all seemed to come out too yellow. Right now we are using Cercon HT shaded for our primary monolithic zirconia, but I believe we may still be a step behind. Eyeloveteeth, you are absolutely right, it's like porcelains...the best one on the market is the one you know how to manipulate. However, since we haven't really settled on a translucent zirconia that we seem to manipulate well, I am asking the experts...the people who work with it every day. We have the Shenpaz Sintra furnace which seems to be a good furnace. Would love to hear from more of you.

Jim

good stuff, jim!
i use a hybrid brush on/dipping technique and i use the dental direkt liquids....though i steer away from cubex2 for similar reasons as you. i also have the shenpaz sintra furnace, and my results with vericore HT and HTX are absolutely fantastic! i have not harassed Doug Frye yet, nor tried the aquarell liquids....but i want your opinions if you do! as i have free time and capital for it, i will absolutely play with the ZZ liquids a bit and post my results. (ive posted some images of the vericore on a few occasions)
have yet to try the katana, but got some crowns made of it awhile back by another milling lab. they were decent, but nothing mind blowing awesome IMHO. i also toy with Jensens XT and Imagine, and have varying results there too....mostly positive.

i guess my main point is that there are a host of "good" high trans and extremely high trans zirconias on the market. the key is coloring and sintering...and prob more importantly....tech support from the gurus on the r&d side. ive seen great cubex2 crowns, but struggle to make mine look great. thats obviously my hands, my sintering program, etc.

find what works for you, hone in on the small tweaks that make your work....well, YOU.

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

Noritake STML/UTML or Ceramill Zolid Fx is what we like using

what mill are you using?

 

[Toothman19]

what mill are you using?

Wieland Zenotec

 

[JandBDentalStudio]

For the guys using DD liquids; are you refrigerating the liquids in between uses? thanks in advance


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[sidesh0wb0b]

For the guys using DD liquids; are you refrigerating the liquids in between uses? thanks in advance


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i do not, is this something that has been expressed by someone as needed?

 

[Car 54]

Noritake STML/UTML or Ceramill Zolid Fx is what we like using

Do you use, or consider using the UTML for posteriors, or will they be to low value, like emax HTs can get? For now in my very limited use of them, I've only used STML for posteriors.

 

[labtek]

no idea on any of those...i had some katana milled for me awhile back. its decent, but wasnt good enough for me....could have been just my experience, im sure others love it.
i personally have a serious affection for whip mix Vericore HT and HTX. been flying off the shelf with very repeatable (and great) shading results. i think whip mix needs to start paying me, i sound like a KOL @Matt Drury LOL

which shading liquids are you using on the wm zirconia

 

[JandBDentalStudio]

i do not, is this something that has been expressed by someone as needed?

It just recommends it in the DD user guide. I was just wondering if it affects shading at all.


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