SLM Frameworks

PDC

PDC

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
997
Reaction score
232
I must admit that using this workflow is fantastic. But I still like the fits of the handwaxed stuff better. I can really tell a difference between the two under a scope. It probably doesn't really make that much difference since it is a microscopic thing, but it's just hard for me to look past it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
C

charles007

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
3,897
Reaction score
453
PDC I know exactly what you mean, but I don't know what to change in my Exocad setting to match hand crafted cast.. lol
I think milling or printing inhouse would make up the difference in fits. Not trying to imply my fits are bad at all. The last time I cast milled wax I thought it fit better than my hand waxing, or maybe its just me ? Dontknow
 
Car 54

Car 54

Well-Known Member
Donator
Full Member
Messages
7,974
Reaction score
1,122
I must admit that using this workflow is fantastic. But I still like the fits of the handwaxed stuff better. I can really tell a difference between the two under a scope. It probably doesn't really make that much difference since it is a microscopic thing, but it's just hard for me to look past it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Agree

To anyone, has the C&B SLM improved over the years? Is the DPM more accurate than the last time I tried them (Argen) about 3 years ago?
I liked the selection of the metals better with the DPM. I could get a 5% silver 40 HN alloy cp to the SLM which has 10% silver EURO HN alloy which I'd rather stay away from.

For now, I can mill wax-ups that fit really nice, but I'd rather quit buying metal when pfm's are getting to be less and less of my production.
 
Last edited:
Car 54

Car 54

Well-Known Member
Donator
Full Member
Messages
7,974
Reaction score
1,122
Or, maybe I should put it this way. I may have used Argens stock cement gap parameters for 3Shape and that was the issue?
If anyone would be willing to PM me their parameters, maybe I'd get better results and I can tweak it from there as I need to? :)
 
PDC

PDC

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
997
Reaction score
232
Agree

To anyone, has the C&B SLM improved over the years? Is the DPM more accurate than the last time I tried them (Argen) about 3 years ago?
I liked the selection of the metals better with the DPM. I could get a 5% silver 40 HN alloy cp to the SLM which has 10% silver EURO HN alloy which I'd rather stay away from.

For now, I can mill wax-ups that fit really nice, but I'd rather quit buying metal when pfm's are getting to be less and less of my production.

First things first. I, like you, would prefer to do away with the pfms all together. They are no where near as profitable as the zirconia workflow. I'm thinking of increasing my prices on those by 35-40% since I believe that is the amount of extra labor and time that is involved.

For the time being I am still doing them. For 1 doc mostly. I usually just get the milled waxups and cast here. If it's a posterior bridge, I like to let Argen do the casting also. Just saves all that investing-devesting time. They also have the induction casting machine where as I still have the centrifugal machine. And I do prefer the 40 HN.

As far as the fits...it's still a hit or miss thing. And sometimes, Argen will grind the sprues back to almost nothing. If you don't check the thickness of the frame before you finish it down, you could end up with a hole. Banghead
 
rkm rdt

rkm rdt

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
21,410
Reaction score
3,288
Why not a milled frame?
 
Car 54

Car 54

Well-Known Member
Donator
Full Member
Messages
7,974
Reaction score
1,122
First things first. I, like you, would prefer to do away with the pfms all together. They are no where near as profitable as the zirconia workflow. I'm thinking of increasing my prices on those by 35-40% since I believe that is the amount of extra labor and time that is involved.

For the time being I am still doing them. For 1 doc mostly. I usually just get the milled waxups and cast here. If it's a posterior bridge, I like to let Argen do the casting also. Just saves all that investing-devesting time. They also have the induction casting machine where as I still have the centrifugal machine. And I do prefer the 40 HN.

As far as the fits...it's still a hit or miss thing. And sometimes, Argen will grind the sprues back to almost nothing. If you don't check the thickness of the frame before you finish it down, you could end up with a hole. Banghead

Thanks for posting back, PDC, I appreciate it :)

We're on the exact same page. I have a lower 6 unit bridge that I'd rather scan design and have Argen cast it. And your confirmation of induction casting makes me feel a little better. I wonder if the sporadic fits are due to who ever is investing it, and what investment and powder ratio is used, if it's consistent daily?
 
Car 54

Car 54

Well-Known Member
Donator
Full Member
Messages
7,974
Reaction score
1,122
@rkm rdt right on track with your October tradition...I like it. It wouldn't be the same without it :)
 
PDC

PDC

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
997
Reaction score
232
Why not a milled frame?
I tried the Coron from straumannn years ago and the fit was terrible. I also tried the milled palladium alloy from Strategy Milling...didn’t like that either. Not sure if they are even offering that now.
I can’t remember if I’ve tried Argen milled Co-Cr alloy or not. I’m just ready to dump the PFM scene.... time to move forward. The doctor that continues to send me the pfm’s doesn’t even have a computer! Hopefully he will retire by the end of this year. :)
 
rkm rdt

rkm rdt

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
21,410
Reaction score
3,288
I tried the Coron from straumannn years ago and the fit was terrible. I also tried the milled palladium alloy from Strategy Milling...didn’t like that either. Not sure if they are even offering that now.
I can’t remember if I’ve tried Argen milled Co-Cr alloy or not. I’m just ready to dump the PFM scene.... time to move forward. The doctor that continues to send me the pfm’s doesn’t even have a computer! Hopefully he will retire by the end of this year. :)
The only alloy I offer is gold milled by Argen . I saw that Strategy is offering milled semi.
 
user name

user name

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
6,960
Reaction score
1,633
So, Im an industry leader? Who knew. I told all my accounts Im no longer providing PFMs years ago. Not one complaint.
 
2oothguy

2oothguy

Active Member
Full Member
Messages
263
Reaction score
17
Thanks Rob, certainly don't want to be accused of using NP after todays tel call...... GREAT INFO..
Received a call today asking if Argelite 61 is really really really Noble since it doesn't have any gold or Pt. in it :rolleyes:
From my understanding noble is high palladium content, only high noble metal has gold in it. We use 61 for many many years now never been a issue. Hope all is well down there Charles.
 
C

charles007

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
3,897
Reaction score
453
Update to this thread I started Nov. 2014...…..

1. Someone asked if Argens SLM has improved.. Yes Argen improved SLM for those unhappy with past results.
2. I was never totally happy with marginal fits with their DPM as compared to their Milled gold alloys or my inhouse casting and reasoning for asking about SLM for PFM frames.
3. Received a call from Argen recently to learn they will soon start Milling Ceramic alloys ! Still have the extra cost of milling which is a little higher than DPM, but we will have a wide selection of nice Argen Alloys...
4. Personally I hate making pfms anymore, and miss stacking porcelain, but love CAD metal designed frameworks and know cad designed is far superior if you must.
5. Lastly, I see little reason making pfms anymore knowing patients will eventually see a black line around the margins and knowing porcelain will/can eventually chip, break, or that rare porcelain shearing off. Throw in the opaque/high value color thats impossible to hide makes above average made pfms inferior to an average made full contour/ micro cutbacks using Zirconia or LD.

fyi........when dental assistants from several offices tell you 3 years or more ago FCZ looks better than average pfms. its past time to bury the casting machine...:)
Just saying !
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

R
Replies
10
Views
2K
PCDL
S
Replies
22
Views
5K
CoolHandLuke
CoolHandLuke
Ann Anders
Replies
27
Views
5K
Ann Anders
Ann Anders
Top Bottom