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    scanner in a dentist office

    Discussion in 'Dental-CAD' started by sampson, Oct 27, 2016.

    1. adl

      adl Active Member Full Member

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      Most of the time we really get what we are paying for. The dead time and frustration is going to be more costly than the annual subscription.It always is.
       
    2. biodentg
      Relaxed

      biodentg Active Member Full Member

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      Thanks for the info, I will hold any purchase on this scanner for now. What about iTero?
       
    3. Jake Dobbins
      Happy

      Jake Dobbins Member Full Member

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      Partner.....I'm beginning to believe you are right!
       
    4. Jake Dobbins
      Happy

      Jake Dobbins Member Full Member

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      I've scanned with the Trios3.....very nice! iTero....I have not held, so I won't comment.
       
    5. Jake Dobbins
      Happy

      Jake Dobbins Member Full Member

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      Another thing to consider with Carestream......no CAD! With Trios3 you bought/received CAD (3Shape) with an annual subscription starting on the second year.
       
    6. Car 54
      No Mood

      Car 54 Well-Known Member Full Member

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      From what I've heard and seen of the version a group of Drs have, and my friend who receives those scans, is that you need to use a spray on the abutment. Some could get the hang of it, the other Drs are sticking with impressions for now.

      Also, as a lab who wants to be in complete control of marking their own margins, you have to pay a one time fee of $3,000. and pass some example scans showing that you know how to mark the margins. Otherwise, I believe the cost is broken down into a tier system, of them totally marking the margins, or of reviewing your margins.

      On the lab side, you need to use 3D glasses on some of the screens to help see in marking the margins (the glasses with the red/blue lenses), it may be helpful? but seems and looks a little hokie.
       
    7. Jake Dobbins
      Happy

      Jake Dobbins Member Full Member

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      Concerning 3Shape, I can give ya what I know.....for those interested. Now this info is for a dental office, don't know what the "rules" are for a lab. Info was collected in Dec/2016.....could be different now we're in a new year.

      When you buy a scanner they give you the acquisition software and subscription for the first year. It's called Dental System. Yearly subscription is $2150. If you want to design, CAD, the module you need to buy is Practice Lab. It costs you $4300 (they was going to throw that into my purchase, but I had to entice). Annual subscription for that module is $660.00. Then if you want the implant module, which is called Implant Studio, it's gonna cost ya $6000. I don't know what the annual subscription was for this module because I was gonna use Blue Sky Bio.

      So, there ya go. That's all I know, AND, I had to pry it out of them for some reason. Which, in the end, made me very leery. I get nervous when you try to hide something from me. And this last part comes direct from a regional manager....if you quit paying the annual subscription to any module, you can't access the software to that module. Basically, they got ya by the tender pieces.

      So in the end, it was too costly and secretive for me, but they do have the best scanner in my opinion.
       
    8. Car 54
      No Mood

      Car 54 Well-Known Member Full Member

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      I've posted this somewhere else here before, but it may be helpful? It's from Sept 2015.

      [​IMG]
       
    9. Gru
      No Mood

      Gru Well-Known Member Full Member

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      Jake, please keep posting regarding the CS system. Many reviews have it as one of the most accurate, but that obviously doesn't cover all the bases. Thanks. I'm wondering if anything worth noting will be presented in Chicago this year.
       
    10. PDC

      PDC Active Member Full Member

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      What the heck is a "trueness" measurement?
       
    11. JMN
      Curious

      JMN Christian Member Donator Full Member

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      Whether you can trust it when a newer computer comes to the office.
       
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    12. Car 54
      No Mood

      Car 54 Well-Known Member Full Member

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      Good question...if you figure that one out, let me (us) know :) It was probably in the PDF, I just didn't read the whole thing.
       
      Last edited: Jan 8, 2017
    13. CoolHandLuke
      Fiendish

      CoolHandLuke Well-Known Member Full Member

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      if you did read the whole study you'll find it is riddled with imprecision.

      instead of empirically testing on an object with known geometry, or comparing scans with industrial grade scanning used by CNC machines the world over, they went full invitro.

      so how are we to know how they arrived at their conclusions of single digit accuracy? short answer is, we can't.

      there is no way to do these ridiculously high detail QA measurements in the mouth. the machine that is capable of this kind of scan and empirical data analysis does not fit in the palm of your hand and will not compare two contours that have been scanned at different co-ordinate systems.

      simply put, the whole study is one of those things idiots use to convince themselves of something they already assumed to be true.

      its not worth your serious consideration.

      there is no way they arrived at these numbers in their graph without taking it to the proper industrial tools for an absolute rigorous runaround. using something like a shapegrabber, or cybergage system. where scans and cad are instantly compared to each other.
       
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    14. Car 54
      No Mood

      Car 54 Well-Known Member Full Member

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      Good feedback, CHL. Given your experience and long history with CAD/CAM, I'll chose to put more merit in what you have to say, than what their "analysis" was. Thank you for taking the time to read it, and post your thoughts and concerns :)
       
    15. rkm rdt
      Artistic

      rkm rdt Well-Known Member Donator Full Member

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      Adore
       
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    16. CoolHandLuke
      Fiendish

      CoolHandLuke Well-Known Member Full Member

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      dont do that either. take everything you read with a bit of salt - although most of the time i'm really salty anyway lol
       
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    17. rkm rdt
      Artistic

      rkm rdt Well-Known Member Donator Full Member

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    18. labtek

      labtek Member Full Member

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      Jake when you were considering the different scanners, was Trios 3 mono (black and white upgradable to color later) taken into consideration? It is supposed to be a lot less expensive up front. But, your reservation about the trios was the annual subscriptions, so i assume the lower up front fee wouldn't have swayed your purchase?

      Anyways, most of the dentists and technicians I have spoken with, love the technology and are eager to embrace it. What is the 1 or 2 reasons in your opinion that dentists will not make the commitment to purchase an io scanner? What are they waiting for and for how long will they wait? IF it is like a computer, once I spend $2000 for it, 6 months later I could buy the same one for 1200. They keep getting better and faster but the price hovers around that 1500 range for the latest and best.
       
    19. CoolHandLuke
      Fiendish

      CoolHandLuke Well-Known Member Full Member

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      its not really that much different from the lab breakdown.

      about 30k for the scanner, 11k for the scanner dongle and dental system, then 4k for implants and another 4k for various model software and compatibility fees, and implant studio about 7k all told.

      most 3shape labs pay about 5k per year.

      most labs also do between 3000 and 5000 cases a year, which more or less means annually the software adds 1-2 dollars per case irrespective of how many units you do.
       
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    20. Jake Dobbins
      Happy

      Jake Dobbins Member Full Member

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      Still no support today! This is really unbelievable! Hopefully, we'll get things straightened out.

      I haven't heard of any new developments or updates. But that doesn't mean a thing!

      As I've said, I'll keep ya updated. When i can convert the .csz file to a .stl/.ply, I'll post the file.
       

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