Read the fine print

wwcanoer

wwcanoer

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Finally, my first anterior case using the E.max system.

I had done the infrequent occlusal onlay using e.max, maybe one a year. I was never very happy with how they pressed out as they took a lot of work to seat, but never put much thought into it-learning curve. A couple of months ago I was talking to a fellow lab person from down the street, and told him about my problems. We came to the conclusion maybe it was the investment I was using, Microstar HS. He advised me to switch to IPS Pressvest speed, as that's what they used in their lab, and felt they got better results than with the Microstar HS.

Waxed everything up, pressed 2 rings with the third in the burnout oven, when I devested my first pressing. Gad's, they looked horrible! By that time, the second ring was cool enough to devest, and the and it looked as bad. I got out the instructions; the liquid -water ratios, mixing time, bench set time, burnout time, the burnout oven temp were all fine. Dig out the e.Max book. Review the program settings, they're fine. Oops, what's this? Fine print. So I put on my reading glasses because my arms aren't long enough anymore, and gosh darn, if it doesn't say: if using the EP 500 oven, use programs 11 through 20. Only. No reason why, but take my word for it they mean it. I was using program number 22 for my e.max pressings.

So, re-waxed and re-press everything, program 18. This time, things definitely look better, no fins and they fit with minor adjustment. I should have taken pictures of the second time around, but was running out of time. But I am curious as to what everybody else's reaction layer looks like, as mine didn't resemble the example in the book.

Moral of the story: sometimes it pays to read the fine print.:eek:

Carol
picture.php
 
JohnWilson

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I would quit doing EMAX if I got reaction layer like that.

We use Whipmix investment "Formula 1" for everything in my lab. We do not get any reaction layer close to your picture.

ON the EP500 the programs above a certain number do something different with how the plunger reacts to pressing. I forget exactly but like you said the manual tells you what to do.

We are pressing out our first HT ingot today, I am excited to see how it looks.

Anyone else press out an HT yet? Are you happy with the results?
 
Al.

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This is my typical reaction layer with emax. Youve got finns also, that looks really hot.

John I got a few shades of HT in last fri Ill be doing a couple this week.
I really like the chart they included. What shade and opacity or tran level ingot to use with what prep shade. It should should take the trail and error out of which ingot to use.

Al

av1.jpg
 
wwcanoer

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Al,

Thanks for the picture. My second time around the layer was half way between my pic and yours. Think I'll recheck the calibration of my ep5oo

Carol
 
Al.

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Al,

Thanks for the picture. My second time around the layer was half way between my pic and yours. Think I'll recheck the calibration of my ep5oo

Carol

Carol that pic is a LT ingot I usually get a bit more with the MO ingots.
 
wwcanoer

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Al,

My pressing was a MO...

Aidihra,

I will have to take your and Al's comment regarding "high temp", I don't know what all the issues are.

What I do know is that I used program #22 on my EP500, and the e.max manual-in fine print- said to only use programs 11-20 for e.max. The tech help fellow from Ivoclar said that the programs 21 and above press differently than the lower ones. Didn't elaborate.

Carol
 
sixonice

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Finally, my first anterior case using the E.max system.

I had done the infrequent occlusal onlay using e.max, maybe one a year. I was never very happy with how they pressed out as they took a lot of work to seat, but never put much thought into it-learning curve. A couple of months ago I was talking to a fellow lab person from down the street, and told him about my problems. We came to the conclusion maybe it was the investment I was using, Microstar HS. He advised me to switch to IPS Pressvest speed, as that's what they used in their lab, and felt they got better results than with the Microstar HS.

Waxed everything up, pressed 2 rings with the third in the burnout oven, when I devested my first pressing. Gad's, they looked horrible! By that time, the second ring was cool enough to devest, and the and it looked as bad. I got out the instructions; the liquid -water ratios, mixing time, bench set time, burnout time, the burnout oven temp were all fine. Dig out the e.Max book. Review the program settings, they're fine. Oops, what's this? Fine print. So I put on my reading glasses because my arms aren't long enough anymore, and gosh darn, if it doesn't say: if using the EP 500 oven, use programs 11 through 20. Only. No reason why, but take my word for it they mean it. I was using program number 22 for my e.max pressings.

So, re-waxed and re-press everything, program 18. This time, things definitely look better, no fins and they fit with minor adjustment. I should have taken pictures of the second time around, but was running out of time. But I am curious as to what everybody else's reaction layer looks like, as mine didn't resemble the example in the book.

Moral of the story: sometimes it pays to read the fine print.:eek:

Carol
picture.php

Be sure you EP500 has the version 2.9 software installed in it. Ivoclar has had this software version out for 10 years or so now, actually when E2/Eris came out it was released to give you a better, more usable reaction layer. It is a "chip" installed on the MotherBoard of the EP500. It eliminated the re-press time (which is the letter "N" on your EP500). I use programs 15 for a small ring and 16 for the large ring. The Lithium Discilicate does not need the repress time because of it's viscosity. So be sure you have version 2.9. Check it be running Program 98. It will tell you which you have. I think 2.6 is the earlier version that had repress. Its a free deal, so check that first.
Reaction layer is all about temperature.....period. Burn-out must be 1562F! Be sure your burn-out oven is calibrated (something we forget to ever do!). If your not pressing with the 2.9 version of software, the repress time will kill you in creating reaction layer. The press is holding that molten hot lithium discilicate under pressure for 5 minutes, making more and more reaction layer.
Proper reation layer is relatively mild and is easily identified and loosend through a bath in the invex liquid, then blasted with aluminous oxide. Not a big deal. Lithium Disilicate + heat = reaction layer. Proper temps and pressing specs make it easy to process off.
Hope it helps.
 
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adamb4321

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Hi,

I get a reaction layer very similar to Carol's, I use the pressing furnace that I got with the Leach and Dillon Cerpress kit about 10 years ago (I think It's a Ney pyramid press, but can't find the handbook)

I've been experimenting with pressing programs and have had either really clean half pressed crowns or really thick full presses with a nasty reaction layer.


I'm pressing today, so have changed the program again by removing the repress part of the cycle and increasing the pressing temp to achieve a full press (I hope!)

I'll let you know how I get on...

Adam
 
wwcanoer

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checked calibration & ep500 is right on and is v 2.9, burnout oven, using silver kit, seems about 10 -15 degrees high. Is that enough to cause a problem?

Carol
 
sixonice

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checked calibration & ep500 is right on and is v 2.9, burnout oven, using silver kit, seems about 10 -15 degrees high. Is that enough to cause a problem?

Carol

YES! YES! YES! The 10-15 difference is MORE THAN ENOUGH to create that issue - actually it IS the REASON for the heavy reaction layer. Back that high temp down 10 degrees to start and see how your results look. I think you will be very surprised (and happy!!!).
 
wwcanoer

wwcanoer

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Again, I would like to express my thanks to everybody who has helped me with my pressing quandary. I haven't had an opportunity to do another Emax pressing at a lower temperature, but will post my results when I do.

Carol
 

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