Re-using Non-Precious Buttons

N

NickB

Member
Full Member
Messages
74
Reaction score
10
So, our boss insists on reusing buttons from non precious metal castings. First ever lab I worked at, the owner would freak if this had happened. Where I am now, the owner is insistent that we re-use the buttons from NP. Many times we'll cast a full cast non precious crown out of purely a button and no new metal added. We dont have fracture problems in porcelain, but im wondering what ramifications this might lead to down the road.

Nick
 
Car 54

Car 54

Well-Known Member
Donator
Full Member
Messages
7,974
Reaction score
1,122
I think as long as you once in awhile add a new ingot, you should be fine. When I used to use NP, I consistently re-used the button with a new ingot. When the button was starting to get to big, I would do a casting with it alone, and throw it out and start a new one. I never had any problems that I can remember.

With the high temp heating of the metal, I'm not sure over time what would get burned out of it, if it were never replenished?
 
Last edited:
sidesh0wb0b

sidesh0wb0b

Well-Known Member
Donator
Full Member
Messages
5,649
Reaction score
649
its NP, might as well!
 
CatamountRob

CatamountRob

Banned Member
Full Member
Messages
7,384
Reaction score
1,531
What is the alloy? What does the manufacturer say about re-using buttons?
We used Rex III and then Williams Lite Cast-B back in the 80's, we always used new metal and the buttons went into the trash.
 
doug

doug

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
2,657
Reaction score
375
Years go, mid '80's we would re-use NP buttons. I haven't used NP since 1989 until now. I can get a nice frame from Bego that I only need to finish the margin an go. NP is inexpensive enough to not need to re-use, but we're so dam cheap as technicians that we will anyway
 
C

charles007

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
3,897
Reaction score
453
I only used new ingots back in the day of using NP,but I'm the boss that made everyone follow the Golden Rule. :)
 
Gru

Gru

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
1,707
Reaction score
305
I know many here hate NP. Fine.
If you're sending out identalloy stickers of some form with your crowns, and you multiple re-cast alloy, how do you have any idea if the trace elements are still there, let alone in the quantities indicated. It's a dental alloy and should be handled as scrupulously as a gold alloy would be. You are certifying that you are sending out what you label it as. Good manufacturing processes, my friend. We don't do it perfectly, but we try.
 
doug

doug

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
2,657
Reaction score
375
So that same GMP would apply to re-using gold buttons in a casting?
 
Gru

Gru

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
1,707
Reaction score
305
Doug, that wasn't quite what I was saying, and I hesitated to post it that way to start with. What I was attempting to say was that when we use, re-use and re-use a button without adding new material as per manufacturer's directions, we change the alloy into something else. For example, the first manufacturer included alloy directions I grabbed say to add 1:1 new alloy. Some NP say always use all new material, some say nothing. I'm only arguing we have to follow the directions to label it as that alloy.
 
sidesh0wb0b

sidesh0wb0b

Well-Known Member
Donator
Full Member
Messages
5,649
Reaction score
649
Doug, that wasn't quite what I was saying, and I hesitated to post it that way to start with. What I was attempting to say was that when we use, re-use and re-use a button without adding new material as per manufacturer's directions, we change the alloy into something else. For example, the first manufacturer included alloy directions I grabbed say to add 1:1 new alloy. Some NP say always use all new material, some say nothing. I'm only arguing we have to follow the directions to label it as that alloy.
not disagreeing with you...but you can only reuse a button so many times before you run out of material and must add new.
 
Gru

Gru

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
1,707
Reaction score
305
Of course, but I've been told by someone who helped develop the NP alloy I use that if you cast it twice without new metal, some of the trace elements are mostly gone, and they don't recommend it anyway. I'm no metallurgist, so I'm repeating what I was told. Especially with NP it's easy to get a large button fast since it often comes in large ingots.
 
C

charles007

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
3,897
Reaction score
453
NP is so cheap its pound foolish to recast buttons. How is it possible to evenly melt a large button alone
with new ingots and not over heat or under heat all of the alloy.
Will all of trace elements still be intact with a used button ? and how does that effect the bonding of porcelain ?
Why even take a chance to have miscasts while trying to save nickels and dimes recasting used buttons ?
Hell, if you can't make money using new NP alloy just maybe your C&B prices are set to low ? :D
 
sidesh0wb0b

sidesh0wb0b

Well-Known Member
Donator
Full Member
Messages
5,649
Reaction score
649
NP is so cheap its pound foolish to recast buttons. How is it possible to evenly melt a large button alone
with new ingots and not over heat or under heat all of the alloy.
Will all of trace elements still be intact with a used button ? and how does that effect the bonding of porcelain ?
Why even take a chance to have miscasts while trying to save nickels and dimes recasting used buttons ?
Hell, if you can't make money using new NP alloy just maybe your C&B prices are set to low ? :D
i ran a mid-sized lab that was in operations for 40+ years....they ALWAYS recast NP. never any porc issues

not my cup of tea, but they did it routinely for decades without a hiccup. NP is NP, and its trash metal. im pretty sure car bumpers are of better quality lol. but ppl use it, and honestly...if a dr wants to cheap out on the alloy, why SHOULDNT they recast it? i dont and didnt agree with it when i saw it. in fact it was the first time i had heard of it....but meh, its NP and more importantly for the Drs wanting to cut pricing to bare bones minimum....THEY GET WHAT THEY PAY FOR! the rest is just useless drivel.
 
desertfox384

desertfox384

Active Member
Full Member
Messages
684
Reaction score
74
Talladium says its buttons can be recast several times. If it were rex i would throw it in the garbage straight out of the package
 
kcdt

kcdt

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
2,845
Reaction score
632
Years go, mid '80's we would re-use NP buttons. I haven't used NP since 1989 until now. I can get a nice frame from Bego that I only need to finish the margin an go. NP is inexpensive enough to not need to re-use, but we're so dam cheap as technicians that we will anyway
Only dental technicians know how to pinch pennies hard enough to squeeze the boogers from old Abe's nose, amiright?
 
rkm rdt

rkm rdt

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
21,410
Reaction score
3,288
Does the boss remax?
 
CatamountRob

CatamountRob

Banned Member
Full Member
Messages
7,384
Reaction score
1,531
i ran a mid-sized lab that was in operations for 40+ years....they ALWAYS recast NP. never any porc issues

not my cup of tea, but they did it routinely for decades without a hiccup. NP is NP, and its trash metal. im pretty sure car bumpers are of better quality lol. but ppl use it, and honestly...if a dr wants to cheap out on the alloy, why SHOULDNT they recast it? i dont and didnt agree with it when i saw it. in fact it was the first time i had heard of it....but meh, its NP and more importantly for the Drs wanting to cut pricing to bare bones minimum....THEY GET WHAT THEY PAY FOR! the rest is just useless drivel.
Why shouldn't they?
Because many (most?) of the alloy manufacturers say not to. They don't say that with most noble/high noble alloys, they tell you how to do it. For instance, from Ivoclar's Evolution Lite, "used and new alloys must be in a ratio of 1:1.
If you're using a no alloy that tells you how to re-use buttons, then follow the instructions and do so if you wish.
 
sidesh0wb0b

sidesh0wb0b

Well-Known Member
Donator
Full Member
Messages
5,649
Reaction score
649
Why shouldn't they?
Because many (most?) of the alloy manufacturers say not to. They don't say that with most noble/high noble alloys, they tell you how to do it. For instance, from Ivoclar's Evolution Lite, "used and new alloys must be in a ratio of 1:1.
If you're using a no alloy that tells you how to re-use buttons, then follow the instructions and do so if you wish.
the lab I was running at the time was recycling Talladium Tilite....as posted above, they say it can be done (Talladium that is). not only can it be done, but it is being done. I am guessing if theres one lab, theres many!
 
Top Bottom