re-used e-max button?

[disturbed]

Don't hate mark for this, he was just regurgitating what someone probably did to him when he asked why don't we repress ingots.

Glad this thread was pointed out to me, gives me a chance to show off a little

See post before this one for arrogant explanation of why to NEVER re press ingots

 

[Bobby Orr ceramics]

I find it comical that that leucite is a bad compound now after it was hailed as the saviour of ceramics with Empress....."Leucite Re-Inforced Ceramic is Superior over that regular feldspathic from the bottle"...... Leucite is proven to be weaker as the crystal grows. Leucite is the crystal we etch with the acid gel. I always made my bonded ceramics with restricting as much leucite growth as possible. Never did the Empress thing at all. Always fired my ceramics to a refractory die with superior esthetics.

With eMax...... different chemistry as a whole but we still restrict the leucite crystal growth as much as possible. We'll never re-press the ingots. I even prefer crystallizing the blue-blocks from Nobel.....less leucite growth than straight pressing ingots.

re-pressing is a waste of time, labour, and quality. IMO

 

[Affinity]

Don't hate mark for this, he was just regurgitating what someone probably did to him when he asked why don't we repress ingots.

Glad this thread was pointed out to me, gives me a chance to show off a little

See post before this one for arrogant explanation of why to NEVER re press ingots

Show off a little? Really? Weak ass crystals? Is that the scientific term? What are you showing off? Youre only repeating what someone told you.. To this day nobody including ivoclar has posted a study to affirm or deny these claims. So where is your proof?
Im just playing devils advocate here because anyone can claim whatever they want here.. And before you lay into me, no.. I dont repress emax

 

[disturbed]

Show off a little? Really? Weak ass crystals? Is that the scientific term? What are you showing off? Youre only repeating what someone told you.. To this day nobody including ivoclar has posted a study to affirm or deny these claims. So where is your proof?
Im just playing devils advocate here because anyone can claim whatever they want here.. And before you lay into me, no.. I dont repress emax

i wont lay into you. And yes most of my knowledge comes from my mentor. If you need specifics about the atomic structure and why leucite crystals grow when heated, ask bobby or Paul...they are genius, i am simply telling people what i was taught. Still good knowledge, still applies here,, betting you are just spouting off cuz you don't like me..that's fine hun ...just hope you are learning, whether it be from me, a book, a mentor, or bobby. The end result is what's important.

 

[Affinity]

I never said i dont like you! its just banter.. Im the type that doesnt like to take other peoples word for it, as educated as they may be.. its why the smart people who write the books we read, reference where they find their information in footnotes... Ive learned a lot from mentors, in fact, I learned of 'remaxing' from one of the most innovative technically/esthetically sound technician I have ever worked with.. and this was shortly after emax came out.. But science requires fact, by its very nature.. If everyone is saying e.max isnt as strong repressed a second time.. how do we know this? Has it been documented? How do we know how strong emax is in the first place? because it has been tested. Ill give you that leucite crystals grow, i dont know much about it.. but how does this affect the final 'repressed' product. Does it lower it to say, empress strength? If so, that was fine for decades.. Why hasnt ivoclar posted anything to back this up and support the reputation of its product? If its the most widely used and popular product in our industry, you would think they would want to test what people ARE doing with it, and show you WHY it cannot or should not be done.

 

[Affinity]

ok the horse is dead.. i think mark has probably more material knowledge than most on this site.. but the attitude ..

 

[SiKBOY]

It's not only testing the hardness of a re pressed ingot vs a pressed ingot, what about the affect of oral fluids seeping into the re pressed ingot over X amount of years. Will it gain strength and hardness or lose? Will the biting forces increase the strength and hardness of a re pressed crown or lose its integerity?

That will be the results I would be interested in because thats the real
Life situation that the material will undergo. The strength and hardness test of both samples straight out of a pressing unit doesn't hold any weight.

Most of us can GUESS what will be the result but until proper testing can be done.... It's just guessing.

 

[disturbed]

Oye ... Common sense is dead. Grab a long crystal try to break it, grab a short crystal try to break it.... The longer 1 will break easier... This stuff has been proven in a lab by people much smarter than me or most of us here.

 

[rkm rdt]

Oye ... Common sense is dead. Grab a long crystal try to break it, grab a short crystal try to break it.... The longer 1 will break easier... This stuff has been proven in a lab by people much smarter than me or most of us here.

Ahmazing!

 

[Mark Jackson]

Look, I think we all learned a good lesson here. This kind of stuff DOES happen, and we all know it. I heard a guy on another forum years ago say he would take any ceramic case with a crack in it, and toss it in an ultrasonic with mineral oil and wallah, "Crack Healed". The point is, we all know better, and of we don't, hopefully someone will point it out for us.

There are some great technicians and business people on this forum. Let's get back to making superior products and making money, yeah?

 

[rkm rdt]

Look, I think we all learned a good lesson here. This kind of stuff DOES happen, and we all know it. I heard a guy on another forum years ago say he would take any ceramic case with a crack in it, and toss it in an ultrasonic with mineral oil and wallah, "Crack Healed". The point is, we all know better, and of we don't, hopefully someone will point it out for us.

There are some great technicians and business people on this forum. Let's get back to making superior products and making money, yeah?

We never left,you did.

 

[Affinity]

Look, I think we all learned a good lesson here. This kind of stuff DOES happen, and we all know it. I heard a guy on another forum years ago say he would take any ceramic case with a crack in it, and toss it in an ultrasonic with mineral oil and wallah, "Crack Healed". The point is, we all know better, and of we don't, hopefully someone will point it out for us.

There are some great technicians and business people on this forum. Let's get back to making superior products and making money, yeah?

Agreed.

But while were discussing these things, why not post USEFUL data that we all can see.. or this is all just heresay.. even if it is scientific fact.. Who knows where we will end up, this forum is a hive-mind.. I mean Edison used whiskers from an assistants beard as a filament when trying to develop his first light bulb.. Maybe the discussions on this forum could push material science further than the manufacturers care to take it.. after all WE are the ones that use it..

 

[Tom Moore]

You do all the experimenting you want but not on patients that are not in on your MAD SCIENCE experiments even if done with the hair of your chinny chin chin.

 

[RileyS]

Tom, go back and reread. they are wanting answers in writing, in scientific study! they are nit doing it and won't do it! (only 2 idiots have and are) Humans are curious. should a doctor tell me he's going to stick something up my rear I'm going to ask why and if there is another way. It's what we do. If there is Scientist work going on, it's been said on here to do it in a university or other professional setting. not ina pts mouth!

 

[user name]

Terms get bantered about and become fuel in a fight. Is re-pressed LD 'stronger". I dunno. Define that for me. Tensil strength, flexural, compressive? Flex a paper clip a bunch of times. After awhile it will break. Not because it became weakened. It became more brittle. So, if reused Ld changes properties, lets get a crime lab or something to define the changes for us. Want to know Ivoclars position? BUY MORE.

 

[CroDonCro]

I allways wondered why did the comp. invest millions in r&d just to have some dental tech mess with the instructions on how to use it and than bad mouth the system seen it all in 37 years

 

[Tom Moore]

Tom, go back and reread. they are wanting answers in writing, in scientific study! they are nit doing it and won't do it! (only 2 idiots have and are) Humans are curious. should a doctor tell me he's going to stick something up my rear I'm going to ask why and if there is another way. It's what we do. If there is Scientist work going on, it's been said on here to do it in a university or other professional setting. not ina pts mouth!

This is about labs trying to maximize the use of a FDA 510K registered material and increase their bottom line. Nothing wrong with that but why would anyone outside of their interest in this have any reason to spend money studying it. The chance of this sort of study having the dollars to find if the second time through the process will work is just not ever likely to happen.

Just like the large number that come here and eat the information for free will not spend a penny to be here this will never get funded.

Its about the money, it's aways about the money.

 

[RileyS]

i couldn't agree more that it wouldn't be worth the money to study. just pointing out that the study of it is being discussed and not the mad scientist of trying on inspecting clients and pts.

 

[Affinity]

FDA compliance is crap.. im sorry but if the FDA was concerned about patients, why would they approve drugs like the one for ADHD with side-effects like 'sudden death'.. This is what the commercial says happened in clinical trials! What is this Auschwitz? Who does these trials? Toot your horns about your FDA compliance, but again, medicine IS experimentation. Dont get me wrong, I think a country should regulate what is allowed for medical use, or you end up like China or Thailand.. but like Tom said, its all about money.. who has the money to get the approval...

 

[Mark Jackson]

If you were going to invest money in something as stupid as this, why not just invent your own product, get it listed and use it however you want? Just because you have the word "laboratory" in your business name, doesn't give anyone the right to experiment on patients, nor does it make one a scientist or an engineer.

Stick to waxing crowns and following instructions.