re-used e-max button?

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odchamp

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Has anyone re-used an E-max pellet?
It seems a shame to through away the button if it's in good order.
Would it lose any of it's make up re-using it?
Could you only use it if layering?
You think im as tight as a ducks back side don't you? I just don't like waste!
 
Gdentallab

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nobody likes wasting materials. But, reused pellets might lose its properties ( and as dental technicians with our main concern is the protection of public helth),so reusing those pellets might jeopardise our main mission.
 
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Reduce the diameter slightly so it fits. No problems.
 
Clear Precision Dental

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Reduce the diameter slightly so it fits. No problems.

It MUST fit passively! I poured low expansion stone into my silicone former with sprue rod. I used this to check fit of button after reduction. If it does not drop in and out passively, it will crack your investment the moment it starts to press, and totally negate any cost savings.

My preference is to always use new buttons, but I admit to there are times when I thought I had a shade on stock and I didn't and I was under the gun. I seriously could not tell the difference under magnification.
 
Mark Jackson

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Seriously? This is a joke, right?
 
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AL1

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I will use a used ingot if the wax weight is slightly more than one ingot is called for, but I have never used all used ingots.
The new ingot always goes in first.
7.5 grams one ingot so if its over this weight by a gram or less. I will use a used ingot.
 
Mark Jackson

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Of coarse I was kidding. We throw away our gold ingots too.

Oh, I didn't know Ivoclar advocated mixing 50% new lithium disilicate to a used pellet.

I could have sworn that during the heating of the starting pellet, it is allowed to reach a plastic state, and then after being pressed into the cavity, surface crystallization takes place in addition to volume crystallization which takes place during the cooling stage?

It would seem to me that the material at this point has undergone extreme changes and could never be considered the same as the parent glass ceramic.

What on earth are you thinking?
 
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I guess Ivoclar have no need to even carry out tests on re-using pellets, as its not in there interest to do so, but it does beg the question?
 
Mark Jackson

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I guess Ivoclar have no need to even carry out tests on re-using pellets, as its not in there interest to do so, but it does beg the question?

No it doesn't!

Do you understand what happens when you heat and cool ceramics? Do you understand the fundamentals of crystal growth and formation? You can't just heat ceramics to a point where it becomes plastic, cool it, and expect it to be same same material it was when it was in pellet form.

Are you really, really going to do something like this to try and squeeze an extra $4 worth of material out of a $12 pellet? Really?

Good lord this industry is doomed.
 
dmonwaxa

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No it doesn't!

Do you understand what happens when you heat and cool ceramics? Do you understand the fundamentals of crystal growth and formation? You can't just heat ceramics to a point where it becomes plastic, cool it, and expect it to be same same material it was when it was in pellet form.

Are you really, really going to do something like this to try and squeeze an extra $4 worth of material out of a $12 pellet? Really?

Good lord this industry is doomed.

LOL
 
rkm rdt

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Hey I use water instead of buildup liquid!....livin' on the edge baby...
 
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odchamp

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$4.00 that's a couple of buds:)
I only asked the question :(
To me the cost was not the point, the waste of material was, as i did say
Would it lose any of it's make up re-using it?
At times i use a large pellet when a small one is not quite enough, then you get a lot of waste if thats all you have to do in that shade, so as AL1 mentioned using it behind the new pellet would save using a second pellet just to discard.
I have not done any of this, and was wondering if others had THATS ALL, i feel like im on trial :D
 
Mark Jackson

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Hey I use water instead of buildup liquid!....livin' on the edge baby...

If you are comparing using water in a build up to re-pressing a crystallized ceramic pellet, you are either way out of touch with material science, or making a joke of something that is not the least bit funny.
 
TheLabGuy

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$4.00 that's a couple of buds:)
I only asked the question :(
To me the cost was not the point, the waste of material was, as i did say
Would it lose any of it's make up re-using it?
At times i use a large pellet when a small one is not quite enough, then you get a lot of waste if thats all you have to do in that shade, so as AL1 mentioned using it behind the new pellet would save using a second pellet just to discard.
I have not done any of this, and was wondering if others had THATS ALL, i feel like im on trial :D

I knew what you meant, and thought it was a great question, obviously though Mr. FDA had to chastise you and judge you for simply asking a question, maybe someone spiked his coffee with a bad attitude this morning, who knows. Don't worry, all bark, no bite and even Ivoclar has said you could use two small ingots instead of one large if you were worried about it pressing. As someone else hinted to though, the price isn't worth the time of cutting the pellet down and taking any chances if one of them was an old one.
 
Mark Jackson

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$4.00 that's a couple of buds:)
I only asked the question :(

I'm sorry dude, I really did think it was a joke and then when people started supporting the idea, I popped my clogs.

Here is the deal. That pellet is a cold state pellet. It was heat treated in a very special way to make it like that, and to prepare it for molding. When you heat it up, it gets to a soft plastic state, just like what you see when a glass blower does his work.

When the pressing is done, and the glass begins to cool, it undergoes a phase transformation which is when the glass goes from being in an amphorous state to a ceramic state via a process called controlled crystallization.

You cannot take a crystallized ceramic and turn it back into the same glass it was when it started just by reheating it.

It's a whole new material now.

I'm sorry to bite your head off if this was really a innocent question. The materials we use every day seem so simple when we follow directions, and we can be fooled into thinking that there is nothing to the science that went into developing them. This is a very precise and sophisticated process and it cannot be monkeyed with. Follow directions to the letter. What you are propsing is not safe.
 
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odchamp

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Mark, no problem I have very broad shoulders.

Your material knowledge is quite impressive, and I thank you genuinely for your input.

Having been to Liechtenstein and seen the manufacturing process I should have known better, but I guess I can’t help myself, old habits die-hard!
 
dmonwaxa

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Mark, would you be so kind and explain the special heating process of the emax material and the molding process?
Thanks
 
rkm rdt

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If you are comparing using water in a build up to re-pressing a crystallized ceramic pellet, you are either way out of touch with material science, or making a joke of something that is not the least bit funny.

Actually I'm letting some of the younger technicians on here know that they can be successful in this profession without having a cork shoved up their asss
 
Mark Jackson

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Ivoclar has said you could use two small ingots instead of one large if you were worried about it pressing. As someone else hinted to though, the price isn't worth the time of cutting the pellet down and taking any chances if one of them was an old one.

Dude, there is a HUGE differnec between using two pellets once and using one pellet twice. C'mon!
 

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