Pressed Emax Staining Techniques?? What would be the best?

[ZionDental]

So Lately i been noticing difference in staining result from my pressed Emax crowns.
I been doing some testing like just using diamond burs to smooth up the surface and sandblast then wet and staining it
another way is smooth it up more with diamond bur plus polishing blue, pink , white rubber burs/wheels then sandblast and wet staining it.
But somehow both tecniques i notice sometime the staining doesnt seem to blend in natural. Not always but sometimes i notice this. I always mix the stain with spatula to right consistence not too liquid not too thick. Just doesnt seem to get it sometimes. I mean overall after glazing it still does look ok but I would like to have good consistent result. Anybody know what i m missing here?

 

[Donna]

I have been having issues also. I am new to this forum and have never posted so here goes. I need help with all my Emax greying out. Doesn't matter if its A2 or B1, HT or LT. I have an 8 unit all singles I am remaking due to completely greying out in the mouth. Also looks grey in the lab. Any suggestions?

 

[ZionDental]

I have been having issues also. I am new to this forum and have never posted so here goes. I need help with all my Emax greying out. Doesn't matter if its A2 or B1, HT or LT. I have an 8 unit all singles I am remaking due to completely greying out in the mouth. Also looks grey in the lab. Any suggestions?

Are u using ivoclar ingots? Usually HT ingots grey out more than others and the more u bake the more grey it gets. So try not to bake too many times. If thats tje the casr then something wrong with ur temperature u are baking at

 

[Car 54]

So Lately i been noticing difference in staining result from my pressed Emax crowns.
I been doing some testing like just using diamond burs to smooth up the surface and sandblast then wet and staining it
another way is smooth it up more with diamond bur plus polishing blue, pink , white rubber burs/wheels then sandblast and wet staining it.
But somehow both tecniques i notice sometime the staining doesnt seem to blend in natural. Not always but sometimes i notice this. I always mix the stain with spatula to right consistence not too liquid not too thick. Just doesnt seem to get it sometimes. I mean overall after glazing it still does look ok but I would like to have good consistent result. Anybody know what i m missing here?

What stain system are you using? Are you talking about the colors, or opacity not blending in?
InSync seems to be pretty forgiving, not as opaque as others. It doesn't get muddy as easily as some
of the others.

 

[Donna]

Are u using ivoclar ingots? Usually HT ingots grey out more than others and the more u bake the more grey it gets. So try not to bake too many times. If thats tje the casr then something wrong with ur temperature u are baking at

I use only Ivoclar ingots. The fully pressed LT are grey also. Temperatures are all set to the original settings. This is something new over the past 6 months. Previous cases have been beautiful.

 

[Car 54]

I have been having issues also. I am new to this forum and have never posted so here goes. I need help with all my Emax greying out. Doesn't matter if its A2 or B1, HT or LT. I have an 8 unit all singles I am remaking due to completely greying out in the mouth. Also looks grey in the lab. Any suggestions?

Contaminated furnace? It would be different it they looked great in the lab, then grayed out in the mouth. But since it's both, maybe pressing to hot,
to many firings and getting more trans every time, lowering the value? Are you keeping them thick enough, i.e.thin crowns fired multiple times can
get trans and lower the value.

 

[TheLabGuy]

I have been having issues also. I am new to this forum and have never posted so here goes. I need help with all my Emax greying out. Doesn't matter if its A2 or B1, HT or LT. I have an 8 unit all singles I am remaking due to completely greying out in the mouth. Also looks grey in the lab. Any suggestions?

LiSi solves this.... However, try to use an ingot with more value....say it's an A2 (I'd use an A1LT) with only a minimal cutback. I only cutback what I feel like i'm going to use incisal on. I still use the e.max/empress stains/glaze paste. Used the NSync for awhile, it was nice but I felt I could do a little more with the e.max stains/paste myself to answer the original posters question.

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

been using more ivocolor and its replaced my gc lustre paste stains. that helps with single fire stains on mono crowns. then a glaze and gone. but i have yet to have crowns go grey (and i mostly use HT ingtots)
burnout and press too hot?

 

[ZionDental]

What stain system are you using? Are you talking about the colors, or opacity not blending in?
InSync seems to be pretty forgiving, not as opaque as others. It doesn't get muddy as easily as some
of the others.

I currently use Insync stains too. Yeah its that muddy feeling before the firing. Sometimes stains blends in nicely but sonetime it looks so muddy and not blending in quiet well

 

[Car 54]

I currently use Insync stains too. Yeah its that muddy feeling before the firing. Sometimes stains blends in nicely but sonetime it looks so muddy and not blending in quiet well

Try less stain in the firing, mix it with a little glaze and do a extra firing if needed. You may be trying to use to much stain in a single firing?
I'm not sure if the Ivocolor stains are more trans than InSync, it may be something worth getting a A shade to see how it looks?

 

[Donna]

Contaminated furnace? It would be different it they looked great in the lab, then grayed out in the mouth. But since it's both, maybe pressing to hot,
to many firings and getting more trans every time, lowering the value? Are you keeping them thick enough, i.e.thin crowns fired multiple times can
get trans and lower the value.

I did just clean the furnace and got new trays and pegs. It's also on fully pressed so it's not too many fires. I burnout at 1600. Pressing 8 units tomorrow and see they look. Thanks

 

[Donna]

been using more ivocolor and its replaced my gc lustre paste stains. that helps with single fire stains on mono crowns. then a glaze and gone. but i have yet to have crowns go grey (and i mostly use HT ingtots)
burnout and press too hot?

What temp do you burnout and press?

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

What temp do you burnout and press?

I burnout at 1562. press parameters are by the book. ive never changed them.
in fact we have been having so much success with the MT and HT ingots I cant recall the last time I used HO/MO/LT for anything. I have a bunch here I am getting ready to sell.

 

[ZionDental]

Its really not issue about firing for the moment. Its really the moment when i put those stains before putting into the oven.
You know the way how those stains really look like it stays on the surface of the crowns nicely. But sometimes i get this muddy looking texture sometimes and u know right away it will look like crap when u put that into the firing. maybe it could be the ratio of stain and glaze liquid i mix together cuz its not like i measure or something.

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

Its really not issue about firing for the moment. Its really the moment when i put those stains before putting into the oven.
You know the way how those stains really look like it stays on the surface of the crowns nicely. But sometimes i get this muddy looking texture sometimes and u know right away it will look like crap when u put that into the firing. maybe it could be the ratio of stain and glaze liquid i mix together cuz its not like i measure or something.

might be time to try another stain system
it took me a long time to pull the trigger but I am happy I moved to ivocolor. still trying out shading combinations, but the colors are super intense and they don't dry out. (at least not fast) I have been really thrilled that ivoclar did so well with them!
I never tried the insync stains, so I cant directly compare....tho I do still use insync glaze

 

[user name]

Stains don't just 'add color'. You need to learn the color wheel. Applying a stain can cancel out a color and that causes gray. Stains have solid particles in them that block light. Applying any stain reduces value.

 

[dandyfop]

Make sure your stain isn't pooling up on the tray before it dries enough. I also apply the stain, then manually hold the crown inside the muffle for a few seconds with a long hemostat until the surface looks dry. Don't hold it there too long or you will boil the stain and get porosity. I'm using GC lustre paste and can usually do everything in one glaze.

 

[Affinity]

This is like asking Michelangelo how he got the Sistine chapel to look so good.. Its all about technique and understanding of color theory and dental materials, if we could sum it up on a forum, Id surely be out of a job.

 

[user name]

This is like asking Michelangelo how he got the Sistine chapel to look so good.. Its all about technique and understanding of color theory and dental materials, if we could sum it up on a forum, Id surely be out of a job.

He made stencils and had apprentices paint by number.

 

[Affinity]

..again, not much different than what insync and lustre pastes do, it still takes vision, concept, understanding... Should I have used a Dali reference instead?