Polishing Argedent 86 yellow gold

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zena

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:confused:Hello once again I need some input. We have certain doctors that like their PFM's casted in Argedent 86 yellow gold. I need tips on how to polish this type of metal nicely for when they ask for a PFM with full metal occlusion and the buccal in porcelain. I have no issues with polishing any other type of metal except this one. It takes me twice as long to polish. Thank God I get paid by the hour LOL I need some advice. :mad:
 
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sixonice

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Polishing ANY high content gold/yellow PFM alloy can be a tough deal - especially if you have the larger full metal occlusal's. These alloys "smear" & move around IF you use TOO much pressure or too high of a speed. I always go slow with the handpiece, start with "brownies" (soft rubber points & discs) to remove the bulf scratches then move down to a "greenie", then buff with zinc oxide powder mixed with propylene glycol (to keep the zinc from drying out) & a cotton buff. The zinc powder works great at really making these alloys shiny as a new penny.
 
Pronto

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Luckily we rarely use that alloy. I try to rubber wheel off as many scratches as possible using progressively finer wheels. I use a Unipol blue bar for polish. Time consuming...
 
JohnWilson

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Polishing ANY high content gold/yellow PFM alloy can be a tough deal - especially if you have the larger full metal occlusal's. These alloys "smear" & move around IF you use TOO much pressure or too high of a speed. I always go slow with the handpiece, start with "brownies" (soft rubber points & discs) to remove the bulf scratches then move down to a "greenie", then buff with zinc oxide powder mixed with propylene glycol (to keep the zinc from drying out) & a cotton buff. The zinc powder works great at really making these alloys shiny as a new penny.

This is pretty much a perfect answer, one thing we have found that works exceptionally well is pacific abrasives line of rubber points/wheels. You can get the unit to a high shine with out using the messy stuff.

Before finding these rubber points we would do the conventional rubbering followed by tripoli then rouge then tin oxide. Very messy and difficult to make them look like a gold crown.

I remember a FMR case we did using a high gold with 16 metal occ's with porc facings. My god i remember spending an entire day polishing that case the old way. Think I was cleaning my hands and the workstation a week before I got all the residue off.
 
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zena

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Polishing ANY high content gold/yellow PFM alloy can be a tough deal - especially if you have the larger full metal occlusal's. These alloys "smear" & move around IF you use TOO much pressure or too high of a speed. I always go slow with the handpiece, start with "brownies" (soft rubber points & discs) to remove the bulf scratches then move down to a "greenie", then buff with zinc oxide powder mixed with propylene glycol (to keep the zinc from drying out) & a cotton buff. The zinc powder works great at really making these alloys shiny as a new penny.
I had another 86 metal case in which they want full metal occlusion with buccal porcelain come in today. I will take your tips into consideration and let you guys know how it goes. The crown should be ready to polish maybe mid week. We'll see how it goes with that zinc oxide powder, I'll keep you posted.
 
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zena

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Polishing ANY high content gold/yellow PFM alloy can be a tough deal - especially if you have the larger full metal occlusal's. These alloys "smear" & move around IF you use TOO much pressure or too high of a speed. I always go slow with the handpiece, start with "brownies" (soft rubber points & discs) to remove the bulf scratches then move down to a "greenie", then buff with zinc oxide powder mixed with propylene glycol (to keep the zinc from drying out) & a cotton buff. The zinc powder works great at really making these alloys shiny as a new penny.
So today I polished another 86 PFM case which had metal occlusion, so I did like what you said although I had no zinc oxide powder or proper propylene glycol instead I used tin oxide powder mixed with Windex (glass cleaner stuff) a salesman told me it's like propylene glycol . Anyways it still takes me longer to polish theses compared to FGC's. It so messy to. Do you know what's the difference with zinc oxide and Tin oxide
 
sixonice

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So today I polished another 86 PFM case which had metal occlusion, so I did like what you said although I had no zinc oxide powder or proper propylene glycol instead I used tin oxide powder mixed with Windex (glass cleaner stuff) a salesman told me it's like propylene glycol . Anyways it still takes me longer to polish theses compared to FGC's. It so messy to. Do you know what's the difference with zinc oxide and Tin oxide

I apologize, I didn't mean zinc oxide - I meant TIN OXIDE for the final buff. I have never used Windex, but I would hesitate because of the ammonia and other chemicals in that stuff that may possibly tarnish the gold. If you have no propylene glycol, just try a couple drops of stain/glaze liquid!! Polishing the high yellow PFM alloys is tough, no question. You have to work with slow speeds, lower pressures and gradually work your way up to a high shine (just like fine sanding wood nice & smooth). The full gold crowns alloys were designed for easy polishing (at least most of them!). A friend of mine bought a polishing set with different colors of rubberized polishers (each has a different hardness to work your way down) from LIncoln I believe. He loves them. Your only other option - if the polishing just WILL NOT work for you - would be choosing another PFM alloy that is still yellow (but paler yellow) with less gold, something in the 74-75% range. Your going to sacrifice some of the yellow color, but you will gain alot of hardness which equals much better polishing. That final product will be easier for you to get out of the lab & be proud of.
 
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sixonice, I have tried those coloured polishers like u said, I have a set of those. I don't mind it on a smaller area of metal like the occlusion of bi-cuspid or the metal on the lingual sides of anteriors, but when it comes to a bigger molar, for me it looks less scratchy doing it with brown and green rubbers. I will try the stain/glaze liquid mixed in with the tin oxide, next time I have one of those. As for changing the metal, no because it's not that often we get PFM with metal occlusion requested in that type of metal. Thanks
 
JohnWilson

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sixonice, I have tried those coloured polishers like u said, I have a set of those. I don't mind it on a smaller area of metal like the occlusion of bi-cuspid or the metal on the lingual sides of anteriors, but when it comes to a bigger molar, for me it looks less scratchy doing it with brown and green rubbers. I will try the stain/glaze liquid mixed in with the tin oxide, next time I have one of those. As for changing the metal, no because it's not that often we get PFM with metal occlusion requested in that type of metal. Thanks

If you don't have the rubber points I mentioned you will work way harder than you should.

Mixing tin oxide with windex thats a no no. Mix it with denatured alcohol, I have a small crown box that I just add a few drops out of my alcohol torch when needed. The stuff evaporates and drys out after use.

Messy yes but works if you don't have the rubber points.
 
DMC

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We love rubber points in occlusal areas of metal.
It's a MUST have!
 
CRWNMKR

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a great polishing paste i found for high gold content alloys is Metalor Legrabil it is available through zahn, you will never go back!
 
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zena

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a great polishing paste i found for high gold content alloys is Metalor Legrabil it is available through zahn, you will never go back!
what colour is the paste, I have green and a reddish paste but I'm not sure of the name of it. So from the start how would you start your polishing procedure for Argedent 86 yellow gold type metal. Some of the others here have given me pointers which improved the overall shine but still time consuming compared to other types of metal which I can do sooo much faster.
 
CRWNMKR

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it is a light gray,i first use the pink rubber wheels ,like from brasseler, over the surface and rubber points in the anatomy and then use a robinson #11 soft bristle brush dipped in the paste,works great for all alloys even composites:):)
 
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I use a williams alloy from Ivoclar called Aquarious hard. It is a very nice alloy. Nice colour, very stable and polishes nicely with conventional techniques.
 

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